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17) "MASQUERADE!" -- scene summary


Discussion and analysis of the HP.

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Mystery Angel

Post Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:58 pm

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:rose: :rose: The :candle: Hidden :candle: Plot :rose: :rose:


SUMMARY of “MASQUERADE”

Paragraph summary: They show hints throughout the song, clues for finding hints through the movie, relating to hidden story, and the song itself appears to be all about Erik. Christine is hiding something, and they show hints that she's thinking about Erik...and finally, in a big clue, they give the relationship between Erik and Raoul.



Outside, a camera flashes, and a blue ray of light goes across entire area--through the people—and to the opposite edge of screen. They are about to enter Music’s domain. They also show a blue line of light going across the building, which is Music’s kingdom. I’ve seen other movies use the blue light too, but the way this was done seems deliberate. (refresher: A statue stands above the opera house that is reminiscent of Erik and Christine, King and Queen of Music. At beginning of movie, they show one ray of blue light going through his heart and her head as it lowers. The picture is also in companion book at the very first page at bottom, and is reminiscent of Apollo (sun god) with Music and Dance. (top picture in companion book) Here in the movie, however, we only see two figures—a man and a woman at the top. The statue of Apollo and Music and Dance is below them.) I feel the reason this ray of light goes through the people—another clue showing Music (Erik) is king there—is that he is calling them to come, and they will soon see him, where he formally announces his personal intentions for Christine to the shock of all there. More on that in WSS.

Andre is dressed like a rooster. Firmin is dressed like a ram. In their exchange they don’t say O.G. or Opera Ghost, which is all they’ve called him before. It’s as if they are mocking him - “See we don’t need the king, we can do just fine on our own" by them saying: “here’s to us, a toast for the city what a pity that the Phantom can’t be here!”

On each side are four soldiers with plumed helmets/swords, etc, lined up on the stairs—could be showing king’s soldiers (4 & 4) - these same soldiers appeared to be standing guard during the day in an empty foyer during Notes.

They show a close-up of a Bal Masque poster—a child in a mask and white costume with his left arm raised. This looks like a boy—but children were not allowed at these balls. It could be symbolic of Erik as a child—the focus is on him, and he is king there.

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And now the fun begins. This song is both all about Erik the king and a legend (like a map) to us, the viewers, telling us there’s a mystery to be solved, what to look for, and how to do it.

CROWD: “Masquerade! Paper faces on parade, Masquerade!”

Masks were paper maiche in those days—“paper faces.” If people are "on parade," they are in front of the bystander for a short time to be viewed, and then they pass by. The characters throughout movie are all wearing masks, and for a short time, sometimes only a few frames, they remove or unveil them for us to find out who they are in the hidden plot, to view their true roles, but we have to look carefully, for the chance soon passes us by. Just like in a parade.

“Hide your face so the world will never find you. . .”

Refers to Erik and his whole mindset throughout movie

“Masquerade! Every face a different shade”

Each of the principal players has different roles and motives for this hidden plot, some of them changing throughout movie. In this opera house kingdom, we have a King; a Queen; a priest {two of them, one serving darkness, one light - both as protectors}; a herald; a clown {jester}; a fool; a goose {nincompoop}; an evil spirit who is a false priest pretending to serve and help the King but is deceiving him and wants full control; subjects to the king (the extras); King’s spies {the minions of the evil spirit}; etc, etc, etc. One other thing—the song mentions a king, a queen, a priest, etc.—but none of the dancers are dressed like this. Another clue that the song speaks of something else other than the ball.

“Masquerade! Look around, there's another mask behind you.”

This says to keep your eyes open, because there are many masks to unveil in this hidden plot—not just the people, but the opera itself, and the opera house—all are masks. JS even said that about the opera house - "because the theatre is really one of the characters in the movie" (interview in companion book. P. 49) The clues themselves are masks because once one researches them to find out what they are and what they mean, it is made more clear why they were added to movie and how strongly they relate to hidden plot—often showing a mirror of POTO as well as what will happen—the mystery never fully explained. The Empress Elisabeth dress was a mask, the Phoenix bed was a mask, Meyerbeer stage in TOM was a mask, Robert le Diablo by Meyerbeer was a mask (spoken of at auction), and the list goes on and on...

To analyze the verses in this song, pay careful attention to prepositions, groupings, and note how the patterns work. For instance, in line below they show color, color, subjects, subjects—to match each color to the subject, you would need to do this: Color/subject; color/subject as below:

”Flash of mauve/Splash of puce/Fool and king/Ghoul and goose” (color, color, subjects, subjects)

per dictionary (Webster's New World)
mauve: delicate shades of purple
When showing the dancer as they sing “flash of mauve,” the first line of this color legend—they show a hint of mauve on the left side of her white skirt. This is the only color we see on any of the masquerade dancers. I think they show this at the beginning as a hint as to what they mean when they sing these colors in the verses—that we’re to match the colors/clothing to the main players, and that its sometimes just a fragment, like a “flash of mauve” in the dancer’s skirt.

Black, white, silver, and gold are all they wear at this ball. But here, we see this:


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Flash of mauve, Fool and King

Carlotta wore a flash of mauve such as the color in the dancer’s skirt in above picture with her pink everyday clothes on the day she went up against Erik (Opera Ghost), throwing a temper tantrum in Notes—

Fool: Carlotta
King: Erik (and if I haven’t mentioned it before, the definition of the name "Erik" is “ruler over all.”)

Splash of puce, Ghoul and goose

puce (per dictionary): brownish purple
Firmin wore a puce-colored coat three times in movie—and each time he was the first to speak against the Opera Ghost refusing his demands—“Opera Ghost” being a combination of both Erik and Phantom as a team, three being phantom’s number.

Ghoul: Phantom spirit
Firmin: goose (a “ninny” per dictionary definition)

Green and black, Queen and Priest, Trace of Rouge, Face of Beast (color, color, subject, subject--color, subject)

“Green and black/Queen and priest”

Green/Queen; Black/Priest (color, subject, color, subject)

Each line relates to Erik in some way, because this song is all about him—it’s his signature song, the kingdom song about the king—which he also added to music box. In the chapel at the end, Christine wears both green and black—a dark gray-green skirt almost deep olive green at times that matches the green in walls of chapel) with a black ribbon in her hair (this is the only time she wears green or a black ribbon in the movie.) This shows who these people are in relation to Erik in this scene. Christine is his queen, Raoul is her priest, but becomes Erik’s too. (more on that later)

Queen: Christine
Priest: Raoul

Many other clues point to Christine being queen and Raoul being priest, as well as Erik being king... In pictures below, compare the skirt to the ribbon in her hair to see how much blacker ribbon is—that skirt looks green, like the walls, not black or gray):

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But, there is more than one priest. After M. Giry’s gold shawl magically disappears, she is all in black. Phantom/Erik's cloak lining turns to black, again, when the gold disappears. They are both priests—one is a false priest (Phantom spirit); one is a priest to Erik and to darkness at this time (M. Giry) Raoul also wears a black cross later—cross is the sign of a priest/religion, and only Raoul, M. Giry, and Meg wear crosses in this movie. Black is the color of priest in this color “legend”.

“Trace of rouge/Face of beast”

Red is Erik’s color, and this is just one of many clues showing that—it’s the color of the rose too, which shows Erik and Christine as one, relationship-wise, since he thinks of her as the rose. Remember, the rose changes colors at key points—getting black in it twice so far. Or it disappears and there are only pink or white roses (mirror scene)

Rouge is French for “red”—and he called himself a beast because of his face. They show the below dancer during “face of beast”—and notice he has a Spanish outfit, with a Don Juan feel (La Feria). Again as if showing this refers to Erik.

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“Faces! Take your turn, take a ride, on the merry-go-round, in an inhuman race”

The opera house appears to be on a merry go round—Meg going round and round before AOM in her search for Christine, Christine going around in circles at the cemetery, and the sword fight also a merry go round (more on these to come)—besides all the reversals. Now it’s our turn to join in. I feel they’re encouraging us to take a ride through this hidden plot/opera, which is much like a merry-go-round with the reversals, etc, and they are challenging us to take a turn at solving it. We have found three occurrences in this song with the merry go round effect—and an inhuman race (spirits who spy, moving statues, and dummies w/ beast faces in audience)

Eye of gold/Thigh of Blue/True is false/Who is who? color, color, clue/comment, clue/comment

”Eye of gold, true is false” (color, clue/comment)

"Eye of gold" relates to both the “mask” (eye) of clothing as explained above regarding M. Giry’s shawl and Phantom/Erik’s cloak. Also this relates to Raoul’s right eye turning to gold in the b&w scene—the moment that happens we’re taken back into the past, which, from countless clues has one major rule: True is false. Another way to say that: All is false. (Could also be a key in saying that what appears to be obvious isn’t so, and to dig deeper.)

Right (Phantom) is false. Left (Erik) is true. Things are not what they appear to be, and I feel this is a hint in song for viewer to look deeper and find out what is truth and what is a lie in this story, as well as what it all means. When you do, you find out that “false” is the evil they are all chained to—the Phantom spirit.

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”Thigh of blue, who is who?” (color, clue/comment)

"Thigh of blue" has dual meanings also—I feel one is that if someone wears a flash of blue, a section of it, you should ask yourself who is this person really? (I have seen this relate to Raoul, Madame Giry, and Meg) Also, Christine’s blue thigh is first shown in Il Muto—the first moment we see Christine—and that whole opera is a foreshadowing of what’s to come, the stage players (who is who?) being those in the movie, with the Count being Erik, The Countess, PLAYED by Christine (not sung as it says in book)—another hint she became Erik’s countess after DOM—and Raoul as the pageboy. The maid is Meg; she often seems to serve and “guard” Christine as though looking out for her. That’s because she does serve the queen—Christine.

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"Curl of lip, Swirl of gown. . ." (another version says: ”Curl of lip, swirl of cape”)

This line has many places in the movie that can work: At JBs hanging when Erik swirls black lined cape (no longer gold), at masquerade ball when Christine swirls her gown (more on that soon), in STYDI when she suddenly give a little smile for no apparent reason (and they show the La Feria paper), at cemetery when Raoul smiles while holding sword at Erik’s chest—all point to big clues within the scene, major hints in hidden plot.

"Ace of hearts, Face of clown. . ."

Alternate stage lyrics say:

“Flash of green, splash of brown, ace of hearts, face of clown.” (in WHABB, Andre is the only one wearing a flash of green, splash of brown—his vest and coat—ace of hearts is both the Angel and Christine (symbolism of ace of hearts: "desire for love" card. Its meaning: "Communion between two souls, with a beauty that can never be forgotten or ignored." This would be Christine and Erik—whose color is red, hearts/love (they symbolize her as goddess of love and beauty). In this case, I feel that "face of clown" is Andre—who often acts like a clown. Raoul says: "we hold the ace" as if saying, Christine is bait we’ll use for Phantom to fall into the trap. That is, if we also look at alternate lyrics; with or without them, the meaning stays the same.

Back to movie lyrics—regarding “Ace of hearts" - They show a man and woman both dressed in costume as “Ace of Spades” a few seconds before singing this line. I feel this is further proof to show that “Ace of Hearts” means a man and woman, a couple—Erik and Christine. Ace is the highest card in the deck, they are king and queen, and the symbolism of that card is shown above. It all fits.


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“Face of clown” also appears to be that death mask, a symbol of the Phantom spirit as they’ve shown so far, and this is as if telling us to watch for it. When we do, we see it appears to watch people, spies on Angel, even having eyes at one point. The dancer they show when singing “face of clown” is the only one with a white mask/face and red dots on cheeks—much like death mask. I feel it’s a clue to look for it.

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Other lyrics say:
“Swish and swirl, fish and fowl, gull and goat, skull and scowl...” –refers to scene at masquerade ball—swish and swirl—the dancing—Andre dressed as "fowl", Firmin as "goat" (really a ram), Meg dressed as a gull, and the "skull" would be Phantom/Angel, because of skull mask and scowl he gave.

”Kurd and king, bird and beast, ghoul and goose, fool and priest”

“Kurd and king, bird and beast...” A "kurd" is a Persian. Could be monkey music box (it's dressed in Persian robes). The monkey being the "kurd", Erik being the king. The bird could be the Phoenix bed, and the beast could be the Phantom spirit. I think this line relates to the last scene in DOM when he's singing with his music box (and the Phantom spirit is still there—more on that later). It's the only time we see Erik with his music box.

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"ghoul and goose, fool and priest. . .”

Since these are alternate lyrics, it could mean ghoul: opera ghost (Phantom/Angel), goose: Firmin, Fool: Carlotta, Priest: M. Giry (in Hannibal with the first note or even in Prima Donna)

"curl of lip, twirl of cape. . .”

Could be JBs murder when Phantom/Angel smiled and twirled his cape; also the scene at cemetery when Raoul smiles at Phantom/Angel.

”Trace of rouge, face of ape. . .”

Sounds like the monkey music box, as if showing it and Erik are the same—or rather, the music box is symbolic of Erik—because the words “trace of rouge" are in front of both of them in both movie lyrics and stage—rouge = red. The monkey IS an ape and it’s wearing red—Erik’s color.

Back to movie lyrics:

“Faces! Drink it in, drink it up--till you've drowned in the light, in the sound...”

This looks like they’re telling us there are clues having to do with light and sound. They’re saying "get immersed, look hard until you find them." So far we’ve seen this applies to candles, lamps, white light, blue light, and yellow light...regarding sound we’ve found many songs are similar sounding at points--and we feel part of that is because it relates to former scenes and how that person feels at the time or what song is really saying. Also there are flute notes at odd times, crash of cymbals at strange points, violins, etc. –sound analyses show that this is all important for hidden story.

“But who can name the face?”

Actors are taught NOT to look at the cameras. No one was in front of these people. It’s as if they’re issuing us—the viewers—a challenge to do all they’ve said in the song.

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The one on the left in gold is a sun god (that’s how the costume was described in the auction). The other is a jockey. There is a lot of reference to sun god in this (i.e. phoenix is associated with sun god Apollo)—and that seems to relate to Erik. Jockey—horses—fine horses—could be Raoul. Just some thoughts.

"Masquerade! Grinning yellows, spinning reds...”

This could relate to Erik on the roof when Christine wore her red cloak, which “spun” as Raoul twirled her—cloak showing colors of the phoenix—and the yellow bases of the leering gargoyles had evil smiles. It could also relate to the spinning reds in the torture chamber, and the grinning yellows the statues.

“Masquerade! Take your fill, let the spectacle astound you...”

Again, telling the viewers to watch, absorb, and let the unveiling of the hidden story astound you. (And believe me, it does! The more we find out, the more we’re “astounded.”)

“Masquerade! /Burning glances, turning heads...”

This can relate to Erik and Christine—the burning glance he gave her in POTO, but she turned her head away because Phantom spirit was too strong. The burning glance he gave her in PONR, and the look “turned her head”—toward him this time.

“Masquerade! Stop and stare at the sea of smiles around you...”

IOW, don’t take things at face value—look beneath the sea of smiles to stop and stare—who are these people really? What (who) is behind the mask? What does it all mean?

“Masquerade!/Seething shadows breathing lies. . .”

The word “shadow” is another word for Phantom in dictionary, and the Phantom spirit does breathe lies to both of them. That it’s in the plural suggests “spies” are there—his minions—and that makes sense since they show a lot of wicked things—statues changing, demonic faces in air/cave wall (in book) and in other objects, and more.

"Masquerade! You can fool any friend who ever knew you..."

In DOM, Christine calls Erik “false friend”—she was fooled by him and Phantom spirit; in DJT, Don Juan (symbolizing Erik) calls Passarino “faithful friend”—he was fooled by Phantom into thinking he was a friend, etc.

“Masquerade! Leering satyrs, peering eyes..."

This appears to be the spectre with the glowing white eyes—but could be other things too. The death mask that had "peering eyes" in it for one scene, or the bust on the organ that suddenly had an eyeball...

"Masquerade! Run and hide, but a face will still pursue you..."

Relates to JB’s murder, and the “face” pursuing—the Phantom/Erik.

Again, every line in this song relates to Erik in some way—and something that happens in movie. It's his signature song...the song of the kingdom he rules. It tells what has happened in story regarding him (and his queen), and what will happen soon...

CARLOTTA: "What a night!"

FIRMIN: "What a crowd!"

ANDRE: "Makes you glad"

FIRMIN: "Makes you proud! All the crème, De la crème"

M. GIRY: (Overlapping) "Watching us…. "

CARLOTTA: (Overlapping) "Watching them"

MEG: (Overlapping) "All our fears are in the past"

ANDRE: "Three months…" (the number of Phantom—which means he’ll be making his entrance shortly) .

PIANGI:[b] "Of relief!"


CARLOTTA: "Of delight!"

ANDRE: "…of Elysian peace!" (Elysian fields is mentioned in Dante’s Divine Comedy—which has very strong parallels to POTO. (i.e. Liszt composed music for The Divine Comedy. And in POTO film companion book, it is written that Reyer—the conductor—should strongly resemble Liszt). Elysian fields is described as the upper level of hell. As website said: “A place of peace that the non-believers who lived virtuous lives go.” Peaceful but still hell because they’re cut off from God—or light.

PIANGI: "And we can breathe at last."

CARLOTTA: "No more notes"

PIANGI: "No more ghost"

M. GIRY: "Here's a health"

ANDRE: "Here's a toast, to a prosperous year"

FIRMIN: "To our friends who are here"

PIANGI and CARLOTTA: "And may the splendor never fade!"

FIRMIN/ANDRE: "What a blessed release!"

Madame Giry: “And what a masquerade!” (Here M. Giry stares into the camera, seeming to let us know all is not what it seems. That the entire opera/movie is a masquerade. Another challenge to figure it all out.) M. giry is the only one who carries a fan AND uses it as a mask—a fan is a symbol of authority in symbols chart, and because she serves the Phantom/Erik, she is in authority over all that’s going on, acting as his second. This line she sings could also be taken to mean that she knew he was fooling them with his silence and he would be back shortly.

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The second after she sings, "And what a masquerade"—they lead into Christine—and I think this was intentional, showing she too is playing a masquerade at this time.

The opera house attendants wear a bit of blue vs. their usual red, during the Masquerade Ball—which has color code of black, white, silver and gold. Perhaps this is to ask us 'who is who' regarding all they are singing in this song...


Christine: sung: “Think of it”
spoken: “A secret engagement. Look, your future bride. Just think of it.”

Raoul: spoken: “But, why is it secret? What have we to hide? You promised me.”

It's as if he's reminding her she made a vow to be with him, as if he knows she's holding back.

Christine: spoken: “No, Raoul, please don't, they'll see.”
Raoul: spoken: “Well then let them see. It's an engagement, not a crime.”
sung: “Christine, what are you afraid of?”

Christine (Raoul in parenthesis): "Let's not argue (Let's not argue) Please pretend (I can only hope) You will understand in time (I'll understand in time)"

Look at the words they use regarding her behavior: “Secret, Hide, Pretend.”

All these words reveal things are not as they appear. She’s withholding something from Raoul, and I believe it’s her love/inability to forget Erik. More on this soon.

When she’s worried “they’ll” see, it wasn’t the guests she was worried about. An engagement isn’t a reason to fear being looked down upon—quite the opposite. The “they’ll see” she referred to was the anxiety of Erik and the Phantom or his minions (from Notes: “The Angel sees, the Angel knows”) seeing Raoul try to kiss her.

Three months have passed since their “escape” talked about on the rooftop on the night Christine panicked, and Raoul promised to lead her away from darkness into light. We know she still lives there because of upcoming scene. So why is she still there?
I believe it’s because she doesn’t want to go. Passage of time made her forget the deed done to JB, but it hasn’t kept her from wanting Erik back, and proof of this is coming up...this is also shown in her behavior—she has a resigned/sad look on her face a lot of the time during this ball, though her lips turn up in a smile now and then, and again she avoids Raoul’s kiss even though they are in the corridor and haven’t yet entered the ballroom...

If there were no longer any "worries" about the Phantom, why bother putting the ring around her neck? Why not wear it on her finger? If everything was in "Elysian peace," there’s no reason for her not to wear the ring unless a deeper explanation is involved. Like her heart wasn't free to fully accept that promise. OR, if she is worried about Phantom coming, why even be there in the first place? She wanted to escape the darkness three months earlier, and if she were to marry Raoul (a nobleman) she would not be able to keep her singing or dancing career. There's no logical explanation for any of the above—save one: She didn't want to be separated from her Angel. (Not the darkness in him. Erik, himself.)

As they dance, they show a closeup of two glasses with gold wine, and four with red wine—it could be showing: 4 = red (we see more hints of this in movie, and both 4 and red are his number and color, just some thoughts.)

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More about The Ring:
The ring was made of crystals by Swavorski. Crystals are symbolic of protection. One sleuther found that the number "11" is symbolic of healing and light. And 11 crystals were in that ring:
“11 is a master number often associated with light, messiah, prayer, healing, heavenly, enduring, peacemaking, illumination...Eleven is the direct recipient of inspiration from the One Source: the preacher, the messenger, the Light-bearer from On High...”

All of this fits with the hidden plot. Clues have shown that Christine is light bearer and Raoul priest of it (preacher in above paragraph). Their source is the Light. She is a messenger to Erik of that light (in POTO, white light follows them in boat—in AOM Spanish Subtitles she calls him out of the darkness and tells him to come into the light, etc)...also, the ring’s meaning is illumination, so perhaps the ring was meant to frighten away the “ghost” (phantom spirit) of so many years ago, as well.

In the original G.L. novel, Erik gave Christine a gold ring saying she would be protected as long as she wore it. I think ALW/JS took from this idea, like they used a few other things from the novel (the horse in POTO for instance, and Persian things) to make their own adaption of the ring. The ring in movie became the promise of the AIAOY song. And remember, a carving of this same ring was on her father’s memorial in AOM chapel scene.

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One important rule about symbolism for any given object in a movie—it doesn't change but stays the same throughout story.

If the ring is accepted, so is the promise. Crystals stand for protection. And those who believe in their power wear a crystal around their neck to protect themselves against evil. I believe that is one reason it is on a chain around her neck. She is seeking protection from the phantom spirit, and I think this is just another clue that they showed it like this.

She didn't put it on her finger because she wasn't ready to take that final step with Raoul. Also, why she hadn't left the opera house. She was still thinking of Erik and didn’t want to leave him, no matter what he had or had not done. He was in the darkness, and though she wanted the light, she wanted Erik too. (More to show that soon.)

The symbolic meaning of The Ring is —“Let me be your freedom. . .I’m here, with you, beside you, to guard you and to guide you...Let me be your shelter, let me be your light...You’re safe, no one will find you, Your fears are far behind you...Say you’ll share with me one love, one lifetime, let me lead you from your solitude...Say you need me with you here, beside you—Anywhere you go, let me go too…Share each day with me, each night, each morning...Love me, that's all I ask of you.” We've found MOTN is exactly the same in music as AIAOY in parts—a clue that the two songs are linked—and they are: MOTN is an invitation to live in the darkness; AIAOY is an invitation to live in the light.

The "living" gold statues are up on the top flights of stairs before Christine and Raoul come in. After they come in, they are suddenly at the foot of stairs, then in another shot, further away. Notice all statues are blindfolded. Perhaps showing “do not speak of what you know”—and do not look too closely. The people there are in ignorance and in chains to the phantom spirit.

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Christine and Raoul dance. At one point Carlotta leers at her and her choice of dress (it’s pink, Carlotta’s trademark color.) Pink is in the rose at Christine’s waist and in her hair. She has become prideful, as he sings to her later, but this doesn’t mean she’s completely forgotten Erik. Also, one thing about pink—it is a weak red.

When Raoul swirls her around, for one spin while she smiles ("curl of lip, swirl of gown" from masquerade song) you see a flash of red underneath her dress. And the uneven swatch of red sticking out shows in such a way that seems to be a hint—it’s just a chunk of it that looks unbalanced, at the back of her skirt bottom, and it’s only there for one spin. All other times her skirt is straight/normal and the underskirt looks dark pink, not red like here. Also the shadow under her skirts on the floor is red ONLY in this one “swirl of gown.”

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Here are the only other two times we see the swirls—no red:

First spin:
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spin after they show the red--she's spinning at the same rapid rate as above, but in the one with the red shadow, her skirt hem appears to be higher up off the floor--a hint to look underneath?:

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the one swirl with red:
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I feel this shows the secret she is hiding is her love/attachment for Erik, since the red petticoat is UNDER her clothing (hidden). I read that she's really wearing a white overdress over a red petticoat. “Red” is the color of Erik—and at this masquerade ball, where the color scheme is only supposed to be black, white, silver and gold, it’s as if she's wearing a part of him (hidden underneath the white, but close to her). And I feel this shows he is still very much a part of her in thought, in heart, in spirit...(this isn’t the only time she hides red) Shortly after this they again show the dwarf looking under a woman’s skirt, and I feel this is another hint that we should look under skirts too...more to come on this later.

The masquerade ball is a great place to pretend—as Christine just told Raoul she wants to do—she is “trying hard to put her Angel from her mind.” (From TOM song: “Imagine me, trying too hard to put you from my mind.”) She laughs, but it’s not in her eyes—they don’t sparkle. She misses him—the red underskirt and spoken words show this, as well as the way she rebuffs Raoul’s kiss, the sadness in her eyes, etc. I feel she thinks the King must not want her anymore, because he hasn’t visited her or sung to her for three months. She doesn’t know that he was on the roof in AIAOY, her last memory of them together was in STYDI and how angry he was with her for removing his mask, then how he took her back to the others directly afterward. He gave her another rose, but in her desire to escape the horror of that night, she dropped it on the roof, and maybe now she wonders if he found out and is angry about that too. Since he knows everything that goes on there. (The Angel sees, the Angel knows.)

So in her “pretending,” as they dance in the festive atmosphere, Christine comes to a point where she feels she CAN put her Angel from her mind, since he doesn’t seem to want anything more to do with her. As the gaiety of the ball overtakes her melancholy mood, she accepts Raoul’s kiss—and during that spin toward him, the ring around her neck disappears for several seconds—even the chain it was on. When this happens, I feel it’s a clue showing that in her heart she’s come to a point where she’s accepted Raoul's promise, because immediately after it disappeared she kissed him--even if it was only another stiff upper lip close-mouthed kiss. And she laughed with him at the dancers, starting to look happy, believing at that moment she COULD pretend. But also, I wonder if it was showing that because she did choose this, the protection was now gone from her...if you look carefully at the first picture—you can see there is no chain, no ring. And it’s only like this for several frames.

Image

Image

That the ring reappears around her neck in next shot isn’t so shocking—it was one of those “now you see it, did you catch it?” clues lasting only seconds—and setting the stage for what’s to come...also, notice the woman behind them in background at edge of the stair—it’s important to see she’s standing at edge of the stair, because of next scene...

As the dancers sing the last of masquerade song, they do a lot of looking left/right, also flicking their heads left/right. Maybe to show left/right is important in this movie.

In stage libretto guests are carrying strange percussion instruments: a monkey with cymbals, a toy soldier with a drum, a triangle, and bells. As libretto says: "Together they play weirdly throughout." We feel these instruments resemble Erik in some way. Monkey with cymbals is symbolic of him. Triangle could mean the triangle of him, Christine, and Phantom spirit, toy solider with drum is much like an Hans Christian Anderson fairy tale about a damaged toy soldier and a pretty ballerina doll, and bells might have something to do with Christine stopping to hear the bells at cemetery, then beginning to sing to her Angel (more on that later)



**COMPANION BOOK CLUES**

In companion book--a masquerade picture appears before Hannibal...p. 64—if you look carefully, you can see three posters to the left with "Bal Masque" on them—and evidence that the child on it is a boy, because you can see his pants/boots. Also, only a few people are in costume at the front—the rest are in everyday clothes, which was not how movie showed it. Everyone was in costume in that scene.
In small pic (p 110) where Masquerade scene really is, two of the dancers are unmasked in "scene shot" (same two are unmasked in WSS pic). This is very important for following scene, as if to say "watch them."

It does say that the engagement ring was from Raoul in this original script of companion book, but that doesn’t explain the carving of the same ring on her father’s plaque, and I’m wondering if they changed the idea from it being from Raoul to being in her family for the final script. They also say there are many costumed dancers like phantoms with skulls dancing in a frenzy around Christine, and that she keeps glimpsing fearful masks, etc—but that didn’t happen in this scene either. It also says, regarding Meg:

P. 113
She SCREAMS. A GROTESQUE FIGURE suddenly appears on the upper balcony, seven feet tall, dressed in crimson, with a death’s head.

Seven feet tall? That doesn’t sound like Erik...and again, they changed this around to do something else.

Of all the pictures they could have used, here is the only picture of Raoul and Christine that they chose to include in the companion book. She looks unhappy; he looks almost angry:

Image


**SPANISH SUBTITLE TRANSLATIONS by Promiseme & PMA**

Spanish translator’s note: "In Spanish, there are two forms of the word 'you'. One is formal, that you use when talking in the abstract, or to a stranger, and one is personal. In Masquerade, they're using the personal form, which makes sense when you consider that they're really talking to us. Also, the word they chose instead of masquerade translates to 'carnival' or 'party' or even 'wildness' or 'madness'. It is also used for a festival called Shrovetide, which is basically a huge wild celebration before giving things up for Lent." (from honey: this is a lot like La Feria—festival of Lights, which we see in STYDI and drawings of in his lair). "I found it interesting that the sign at the beginning of the scene is translated as 'ball of masks' BUT the word 'carnival' was used in the song."


“Masquerade! Paper faces on parade! Masquerade! Hide your face so the world will never find you. Masquerade! Every face a different shade! Masquerade! Look around, there’s another mask behind you!”
“Carnival! Artificial masquerade. What is hidden in a masked face? Carnival! Every face is special. There is always another mask to your side.”

From honey: this is interesting—basically artificial means “fake” “not real” and masquerade means “pretense” “deception”. . .reminds me of when Raoul told her in AIAOY spanish subtitles to forget this “false deception.”—which is really saying the same thing. A deception is false, but this might have something to do with the "true is false idea"--meaning “false” Phantom—so “forget this Phantom deception” or Carnival! “Phantom’s masquerade”. . .also, every face is special—each of these characters is important to hidden story.

”Flash of mauve, splash of puce, fool and king, ghoul and goose,
“False love, brilliant blue, fool and king, shadow and light"

From honey:
False love/ fool and king—perhaps the fool here being phantom spirit and the king Erik, showing there was only a pretense that the Phantom was loyal to Erik.
Brilliant blue—shadow and light (could be the blue rays that went through Erik, who was in darkness {shadow}, and Christine, who was in light)
another sleuther believes 'false love' refers to Raoul and Christine, and shadow refers to the phantom, when it says, 'shadow and light'

Green and black, queen and priest, trace of rouge, face of beast,
"Flower of lily, laughter and cross.

From honey: Translated into French, those words—Flower of Lily—literally mean fleur de leys—a symbol of France that only kings wore and what appears to be the top half of emblem on the back of Erik’s robe in STYDI...there are several references to a “cross” in Spanish subtitles, asking to remove it/ be freed of it—and a cross in this context is like a burden—or chains.

Faces…take your turn, take a ride on the merry-go-round in an inhuman race
”Spinning, turn, come to my carousel with its brutal to-and-fro”

From honey: Sounds like room of mirrors--where Raoul lunged and turned stabbing at mirror.

Eye of gold, thigh of blue, true is false, who is who? Curl of lip, swirl of gown, ace of hearts, face of clown”
"Glitter and taboo, it is not true, she and you, the carmine(red) and love. I have the ace.

From honey: This is someone speaking to someone else: Glitter—"glamour/splendor" (Raoul a nobleman) and taboo--"unacceptable/forbidden"—it is not true, she and you—saying that she and Raoul are not a couple. The carmine (another word for red) and love—makes it look as if Christine is not in love with Raoul. The way this is written makes it appear as if that entire line goes together—and the one following below—personally talking to the same person. It also shows what the color represents in the movie—Red is all about Erik, but here is a clue that shows it is also the color of love. (Christine is symbolized as Venus, the goddess of love and beauty, at least three times; and Erik is love too. They are both Music, and MUSIC is love. Confused? Just wait…more will be shown on that idea soon.) The words continue in next line, sounding as if this same person is still talking to the same one…

Faces...drink it in, drink it up, til you’ve drowned in the light, in the sound. But who can name the face?
Ruin. Turn to drink until you are part of this sound, and this light a hostage. Don’t you know whom you see?”

From honey: "I have the ace. Ruin"--sounds like Erik talking here, saying he has a plan that will lead to Raoul’s ruin.
"Turn to drink”—the “drink” could be when Raoul fell in the water (a lake was often called "the drink" in Europe) "until you are a part of this sound"—could mean until he's trapped in the Phantom's plan (music of darkness) though "the sound" is also a body of water...“and this light a hostage” sounds like when he takes Christine (light) and holds her in his lair. “Don’t you know whom you see?” This is explained clearly in French subtitles—which follow—and shows the relationship between Erik and Raoul.

My take this verse, which is clearly different from the English—Erik is talking to Raoul; since this is Erik’s song, that makes sense: Glitter and taboo, it is not true, she and you (Raoul), the carmine (red) and love. I (Erik) have the ace. Ruin. Turn to drink until you are part of this sound (talking to Raoul), and this light a hostage (Christine). Don’t you (Raoul) know whom you see?

Again, as if taunting him, because he's light—IOW, as if Erik is saying "can't you see who I really am since you're supposed to be from the light? Can’t you see that Christine is my queen?" Another POTOer believes this: Furtively we'll scoff and quaff (means drink), stealing what in truth is mine" (referring to taking her as hostage).

“Masquerade! Grinning yellows, spinning reds...Masquerade! Take your fill -let the spectacle astound you!
“Carnival! Where nothing is personal, carnival. You will leave the party speechless..."

From honey: Maybe “speechless” is another reference to silence in the kingdom. Also, another word for “personal” is “private”—so maybe it’s showing nothing is private there—it’s all there to be found or shown.

Masquerade! Burning glances, turning heads ...Masquerade! Stop and stare at the sea of smiles around you!”
Carnival! Burning and sensual eye, Carnival. You have drowned in a sea of smiles.”

English: “Masquerade! Seething shadows, breathing lies... Masquerade! You can fool any friend who ever knew you!
Carnival! Furious dark and craziness, carnival. Where you have even deceived your friend.

Masquerade! Leering satyrs, peering eyes ... Masquerade! Run and hide -but a face will still pursue you!”
Carnival! With appearance of animal, carnival. Run and escape. Your steps have been traced..."

from honey: one sleuther said it this way: Christine deceived Raoul and with the appearance of Erik's face in the unmasking he ran, they escaped, and the mob tracked him.

“What a night! What a crowd! Makes you glad! Makes you proud! All the creme de la creme! Watching us, watching them!
Reality and fiction, friendship and emotion. They are the cream of the cream. Look at them. Who is who?

From honey: Another sleuther put it this way: Reality and fiction-- "our games of make believe are at an end” ...friendship and emotion--she thought of him as friend all those years and it blossomed into passion…They are the cream of the cream. Look at them, who is who?—King and Queen...

And all our fears are in the past! Three months of relief! Of delight! Of Elysian peace! And we can breathe at last! No more notes! No more ghosts! Here's a health!
Now there are no fears, never more. Now there is no terror, only peace. Finally, a break. We will not have phantoms anymore. There is no pressure nor apprehension.

Here's a toast: to a prosperous year! To our friends who are here And may our splendor never fade! Three months! What a joy! What a change! What a blessed release! And what a masquerade!”
Drink a toast. I drink to prosperity and good friendship, for our immortal glory, calm freedom, starting again, and to this grand carnival.”

from honey: Angel of Music both always talked about their glory--calm freedom would be once he leaves the lair, as would be starting again—and grand carnival? Since it's not the word used for ball or the word that should have been used, and because of the word choice they did use...La Feria. I feel it’s a foreshadowing clue of where they went. Erik made the choice to be with Christine and leave the dark, now they start again in the grand 'festival of lights'—and in the light.

The “Think of it, a secret engagement” scene is virtually identical to the English.

“Masquerade! Paper faces on parade! Masquerade! Hide your face, so the world will never find you! Masquerade! Every face a different shade! Masquerade! Look around -There's another mask behind you! Masquerade! Burning glances, turning heads ...Masquerade! Stop and stare at the sea of smiles around you! Masquerade! Grinning yellows, spinning reds ...Masquerade! Take your fill - let the spectacle astound you!
“Carnival! Artificial masquerade. What is hidden in a masked face? Carnival! Burning and sensual eye, Carnival. You have drowned in a sea of smiles. Carnival! Where nothing is personal, carnival. You will leave the party speechless.”



**FRENCH SUBTITLE TRANSLATIONS by Mia** (from honey: surprise!—am going to try to get all of them up that I have, from this point on, and will go back and put in the rest. One thing—I didn’t always put all the symbols over the letters as foreign words have them—but I did go back and do them with those she wasn’t sure about, in case anyone who knows French wants to chime in…)

Masquerade! Paper faces on parade
Mascarade! Maint profiles sont en parade
Masquerade! Many faces are on parade

Masquerade! Hide your face, so the world will never find you!
Mascarade! Cachez bien les couleurs qui vivent en vous.
Masquerade! Hide well the colors that live in you

From honey: Don’t show your true colors—could be relating to Erik/King hiding the truth about his connection to Phantom spirit from Christine—one of his secrets. He also sings this at end to music box, in DOM, and the music box loses its red color (more on that later)

Masquerade! Every face a different shade
Mascarade! Oeil de verre et cils de jade,
Masquerade! Eye of glass and eyelashes of jade

Masquerade! Look around, there's another mask behind you!
Mascarade! Ou qu’on soit , il y a des masques, devant vous
Masquerade! Wherever you are, there are masks, in front of you[b]

From honey: not behind you—in front. Perhaps showing us that there is a mystery to solve and masks to unveil before our eyes.

Flash of mauve, splash of puce
Plage de mauve, nuage de rose
[b] (Plage means beach) Beach of mauve, cloud of pink


Fool and king, ghoul and goose
Khol et crème, droles de choses,
Khol and cream, funny things

From honey: Khol—black / Cream—white

Green and black, queen and priest
???not translated??

Trace of rouge, face of beast
Trace de rouge, face de bete
Trace of red, face of beast

Faces, take your turn, take a ride
On the merry-go-round in an inhuman race
Faites quelques tours, ou que mene. La ronde. Prenez place ou que mene. La ronde. Ignorant la menace.
Make some turns, (take the lead? I’m not sure). The circle (?) Take your place.... The circle. Ignore the threat (or do not know the threat)

Eye of gold, thigh of blue
Oeil en or, feuille en bois,
Eye of gold, leaf in wood

True is false, who is who?
Tout est faux; vous, c’est toi
All is false; you, it’s you (vous is the unfamiliar pleural form and toi is the familiar single form)

Curl of lip, swirl of gown
Coin de lippe, seins de Diane,
Corner of lip (thick lip), Diane’s breasts,

From honey: the word Seins can also mean “bust”—so it could refer to a statue too. From a website: pagan fertility goddess Diana who represented the generative powers of nature. She was referred to as a fertility goddess because she mothered all the numerous pagan gods representing the god-incarnate Nimrod. Diana was pictured with numerous teats so that she could nurse all the pagan gods... Another website said: Possibly, she was the ruler of the sun as well as the moon, for the early Italians had no sun god and had to adopt Apollo for that role. Diana’s name comes from the word for “light”

Ace of hearts, face of clown
As de coeur, face d’iguane,
Ace of heart, face of iguana

Faces, drink it in, drink it up, Till you've drowned in the light in the sound
Voyez, comme ici et ce soir tous les mondes se cotoient, se confondent.
See, as here (?) and tonight everyone (don’t know what cotoient is), confusing

But who can name the face?
Mais tous les noms s’effacent
But all the names are faded/worn away

Masquerade! Grinning yellows, spinning reds
Mascarade! Grimacants ou spirituels
Masquerade! Grimaces or spirituals

From honey: the French word spirituels also means ghostly, unworldly…

Masquerade! Take your fill, let the spectacle astound you!
Mascarade! Elle ou il, cela doit dependre de vous!
Masquerade! She or him, that has to depend on you!

From honey: this sounds as if it’s addressed to Erik—will he choose Christine, or staying behind in the darkness with the Phantom at the end…Erik was the only one who could make that choice.

Masquerade! Burning glances, turning heads
Mascarade! Bourricots et tourterelles
Masquerade! Donkeys and turtledoves

From honey: In POTO intro and Notes they showed donkeys; and turtledoves, from website: Doves were the classic lovebirds, and favorites, too, of Cupid’s comely mother, Venus.. .(another website): In the same way, the power of Venus is drawn by turtle-doves… (another website): it is commonly believed that these birds (turtledoves) cannot live without their mates. Doves are symbols of fidelity and love, because they mate and pair up for life. (They show turtledoves in the movie)

Masquerade! Stop and stare at the sea of smiles around you!
Mascarade! Statuaires, ces esquisses n’attendant que vous.
Masquerade! Statuaries these shapes that move or wait for you

From honey: as one sleuther said, it sounds like the moving statues…more on that later.

Masquerade! Seething shadows, breathing lies
Mascarade! Faux-semblants et beaux mirage,
Masquerade! Pretenses and beautiful mirages,

From honey: sounds like POTO/MOTN

Masquerade! You can fool any friend who ever knew you!
Mascarade! Sous ce loup, votre frère ignore que c’est vous
Masquerade! Beneath this wolf, your brother knows that it’s you

From honey: wow, wow, wow… wolf = Phantom spirit –(they show the Il Muto statue--resembling Erik, the king--with wolf’s head on hand)—Erik is the one hiding under phantom spirit—(the bearer of the wolf being a deadly enemy to have, as website stated from Il Muto summary)--“Beneath this wolf”—Erik was the only one they show having any connection to a wolf. (Though Raoul's name means "wolf counselor"--surprised?) And I think this is also a big hint showing that Raoul and Erik are brothers and Erik knows it—he knows who Raoul is! :shock: Which also means--Erik is a de Chagny. :heart:

Masquerade! Leering satyrs, peering eyes
Mascarade! Turbulents ou purs et sages,
Masquerade! Turbulent or clear and wise

Masquerade! Run and hide but a face will still pursue you!
Mascarade! Côté pile, côté face, lequel étais vous?
Masquerade! (Not sure) , was that you?

CARLOTTA:
What a night!
Quelles toilettes!
Which toilets (huh?)

PIANGI:
What a crowd!
Quel gala!
What a gala!

ANDRE:
Makes you glad!
Quel regal!
What a treat!

FIRMIN:
Makes you proud!
Quel emoi!
What excitement!

All the creme de la creme!
C’est la crème de la crème!
It’s the cream of the cream

CARLOTTA:
Watching us watching them!
Ceux qui comptent, ceux qu’on aime.
Those who count, those who love (???)

MEG:
And all our fears are in the past!
not translated (no words?)

ANDRE:
Three months!
Trois mois!
Three months!

PIANGI:
Of relief!
Euphoriques!
Euphoria!

CARLOTTA:
Of delight!
de delice
Of delight

ANDRE:
Of Elysian peace!
et de paix
and of peace

FIRMIN:
And we can breathe at last!
Et l’on respire enfin
And we can finally breathe

CARLOTTA:
No more notes!
Ni messages
No messages

PIANGI:
No more ghosts!
Ni visions
No visions

M.GIRY:
Here's a health!
tchin a tous!
Cheers to you!

ANDRE:
Here's a toast to a prosperous year!
Oui, trinquons! A la prosperite!
Yes, clinking glasses! To prosperity!

FIRMIN:
To our friends who are here!
A nos freres du métier
To our brothers of profession (?)

CARLOTTA/PIANGI:
And may its splendour never fade!
Et plus jamais d’autres brimades!
And never more of other (bullying episodes?)

FIRMIN/ANDRE:
What a blessed release!
Que revienne le succes…
???

M.GIRY:
And what a masquerade!
Et d’autres mascarades!
of other masquerades!

From honey: This makes it look as if they are saying there are other masquerades in this movie—not just the one here.

CHRISTINE:
Think of it! A secret engagement! Look, your future bride! Just think of it!
Oh Raoul! Des fiancailles secretes, eh oui, ta future epouse! Tu te rends compte ?
Oh, Raoul! See our secret engagement, and yes, your future bride! Who would have believed it?

RAOUL:
But why is it secret? What have we to hide? You promised me.
Mais pourquoi tant de secrets? Qu’as-tu a cacher ? Tu m’as promis.
But why so many secrets? What are you hiding? You promised me.

From honey—he speaks of more than one secret and asks what are you hiding. A different connotation than English—not saying what have we to hide with the engagement, but what are you hiding from me? And I believe it’s her love for Erik. She’s already told him about the Phantom and her time in his lair, so she’s not hiding that.

CHRISTINE:
No, Raoul. Please don't, they'll see
Non, Raoul, pas ici, on va nous voir
No, Raoul, not here, they will see

RAOUL:
Well then let them see. It's an engagement, not a crime!
Et pui après? Nous sommes fiancés, ce n’est pas un crime.
And so? We are engaged, it isn’t a crime.

Christine, What are you afraid of?
Christine, mais de quoi as-tu peur?
Christine, but what are you afraid of?

CHRISTINE:
Let's not argue...
Restons calmes
Let’s stay calm

RAOUL:
Let's not argue...
Restons calmes
Let’s stay calm

CHRISTINE:
Please pretend...
Par pitié,
For pity’s sake

from honey—this version sounds as if she’s more frustrated
with him

RAOUL:
I can only hope I'll...
J’ai confiance en toi,
I have trust in you

CHRISTINE:
You will...
Ne brûlons aucune étape…
(I really don’t know this...another figurative phrase)

BOTH:
...understand in time
Ne brûlons pas d’étape….

ALL:
Masquerade! Paper faces on parade!
Mascarade! Maints profiles sont en parade
Maquerade, many faces are on parade

Masquerade! Hide your face, so the world will never find you!
Mascarade! Cachez bien les couleurs qui vivant en vous
Masquerade! Hide well the colors which live in you

Masquerade! Every face a different shade!
Mascarade! Oeil de verre et cils de jade
Masquerade! Eye of glass and lashes of jade

Masquerade! Look around, there's another mask behind you!
Mascarade! Ou qu’on soit il ya des masques, devant vous
Whereever you are, thre are masks in front of you

Masquerade! Burning glances! turning heads
Mascarade! Grimacants ou spirituels,
Masquerade! Grimaces or spirtuals

Masquerade! Stop and stare at the sea of smiles around you!
Mascarade! Elle ou il, cela doit dependre de vous
Masquerade! She or he, that depends on you

Masquerade! Grinning yellows, spinning reds
Mascarade! Bourricots et tourterelles,
Masquerade! Donkeys and turtledoves

Masquerade! Take your fill, let the spectacle astound you!
Mascarade! Statuaires, ces esquisses n’attendent que vous.
Masquerade! Statuaries, these shapes that move/wait for you.



**THE SPOKEN WORD**


Christine: sung: “Think of it”
(Spoken) “A secret engagement. Look, your future bride. Just think of it.”

Raoul: (Spoken) “But, why is it secret? What have we to hide? You promised me.”

Christine: (Spoken) “No, Raoul, please don't, they'll see.”

Raoul: (Spoken) “Well then let them see. It's an engagement, not a crime.”


I have done an in-depth analysis of each time they broke away from song to speak in movie (which was ONLY done in movie, not in stage play) and I found one link in all of it—every time it was about the Angel of Music, Erik, Christine, or both. I feel they were showing a pattern with all this—and that she spoke the above part because it’s a clue about whom she’s really thinking about/addressing here. For the hidden plot, the words she spoke were addressed to Erik. I believe they had her sing those three words, then speak the words because they were all about Erik and the words were directed to him. There is no reason for her to sing three words—then speak the rest, since that’s not how they did it in the stage show—why even make such a change? I see it as a hint for the hidden plot. Her telling Erik to look at his future bride, and it was a secret since no one yet knew she was his intended queen. But that will soon change. I think this is another foreshadowing clue of whom she did marry. That it was SPOKEN tells me the words were really about Erik, and not Raoul. Also, I feel this is her ring—passed down in her family (because it was engraved on her father’s plaque, and I feel that’s a clue to us to show us this)—and that she is to give it to the one she chooses, who then in turn gives it to her.

“they’ll see”—was Phantom spirit and Erik, I think. At this point, she knows there are two.


**SOUND SIMILARITIES by Redrose**


AOM (sped up) at beginning

Notes (Carlotta’s faint) during picture-taking

Unique for most part

TOM/Raoul I’ve Seen Him --when Christine and Raoul talk

Unique when bottles are taken

POTO for Phantom’s entrance



I don’t have Phantom’s Star analysis. If anyone does, please send it to me. The next one I have of hers is the Journey to the Cemetery music, and everything from that point on...

:heart: :donjuan: :heart:

LINK TO "Why So Silent...?" :

viewtopic.php?p=199536#199536
Last edited by honeyphan on Sat May 01, 2010 8:12 am, edited 5 times in total.
Music brought them together...One kiss bound them for life...
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Nightingale's Angel

Post Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:30 am

~

honeyphan

Great analysis. My French is rusty but I suspect toilettes means outfits, as in the costumes they were wearing. It also could include masks, makeup, hair, etc. So I would think costumes, which encompass the whole picture, would be an adequate translation.
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Post Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:34 pm

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youarenotalone wrote:honeyphan

Great analysis. My French is rusty but I suspect toilettes means outfits, as in the costumes they were wearing. It also could include masks, makeup, hair, etc. So I would think costumes, which encompass the whole picture, would be an adequate translation.


Thanks, Yana! I hope that's what it means.
I like your translation better. lol

I looked it up on one of those online translators, which you can't always trust, but since it was just one word, I thought why not?
It said toilets. But it's the "which" toilets that was odd. All of them before that--Piangi, etc--sing "What a..." And she sings "wihich"--as if asking us to find a difference in something...

So, with what you said--that would make it "which costumes...or which outfits..."
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Nightingale's Angel

Post Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:53 pm

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honeyphan wrote:What a..." And she sings "wihich"--as if asking us to find a difference in something...

So, with what you said--that would make it "which costumes...or which outfits..."


I believe in this case the interrogative quel/quelles means what instead of which. Check out the following site:

http://www.wordreference.com/index.htm

They have message boards where you can ask questions about translations to native speakers. As a writer it might come in handy for you.
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Post Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:36 pm

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Honey/Yana, Toilette is a French term that was absorbed/adopted into English by the 'well to do'. It was used mostly in the 18/19th centuries to describe the whole process of getting washed, made up and dressed. The term was especailly applied to ladies (hence the tte word ending), but later came to be used also by the 'dandies', like Beau Brummell in Regency/Georgian times.

Brilliant summary Honey...Wolves and brothers :shock:
As usual I'm astounded by your attention to detail...I hadn't even noticed the wine in the glasses :roll:

>>Sits patiently tapping foot waiting for WSS<<


I'd agree with Yana about 'Quelle', meaning "What costumes!" As in, "What a huge effort everyone has made in dressing for this Ball!"
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Post Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:29 am

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Wow! This is awsome! I had made up a story in my mind a long time ago where Raoul was Erik's younger brother, but I had no idea that it was part of a secret plot!
One thing that I was wondering was the dance that the young man does on the top of the stairs. I just throwing this out there - others may have different ideas (I'm not even sure if this is the right place to post ideas - tell me, please, if it's not). At one point he almost looks like a ballerina, then flails his arms out as if saying "no" or "stop", then he seems to change his mask. Could he be hinting of what may happen in PONR or perhaps looking back at JB? It's just a very odd style of dance to stick in the movie and I wondered about it before I was aware of the HP.
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Post Mon Aug 07, 2006 3:56 am

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Secret Song wrote:Wow! This is awsome! I had made up a story in my mind a long time ago where Raoul was Erik's younger brother, but I had no idea that it was part of a secret plot!
One thing that I was wondering was the dance that the young man does on the top of the stairs. I just throwing this out there - others may have different ideas (I'm not even sure if this is the right place to post ideas - tell me, please, if it's not). At one point he almost looks like a ballerina, then flails his arms out as if saying "no" or "stop", then he seems to change his mask. Could he be hinting of what may happen in PONR or perhaps looking back at JB? It's just a very odd style of dance to stick in the movie and I wondered about it before I was aware of the HP.


Yes, this is the right place in posting ideas for this scene. :heart:

That's some good insight Secret Song--there could very well be a message in that mime's dance. I've wondered about it too, and I sure wouldn't put it past these genius POTO creators. lol

I can't remember if I've welcomed you or not--but welcome to the board! :hug:

Additional comment:

Operatart wrote:Honey/Yana, Toilette is a French term that was absorbed/adopted into English by the 'well to do'. It was used mostly in the 18/19th centuries to describe the whole process of getting washed, made up and dressed. The term was especailly applied to ladies (hence the tte word ending), but later came to be used also by the 'dandies', like Beau Brummell in Regency/Georgian times.

Brilliant summary Honey...Wolves and brothers :shock:
As usual I'm astounded by your attention to detail...I hadn't even noticed the wine in the glasses :roll:

>>Sits patiently tapping foot waiting for WSS<<


I'd agree with Yana about 'Quelle', meaning "What costumes!" As in, "What a huge effort everyone has made in dressing for this Ball!"



Thanks Operatart! :hug:
And for the info too!

Yes, that's probably what it means. O:) I just wonder why they used a different word--Quelles--instead of Quel that one time...
Music brought them together...One kiss bound them for life...
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Nightingale's Angel

Post Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:40 pm

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honeyphan wrote:I just wonder why they used a different word--Quelles--instead of Quel that one time...


Singular excitement, treat, gala--plural costumes (quel vs. quelles)
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Angel of The North

Post Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:50 pm

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youarenotalone wrote:
honeyphan wrote:I just wonder why they used a different word--Quelles--instead of Quel that one time...


Singular excitement, treat, gala--plural costumes (quel vs. quelles)


That was always my downfall...Firstly, forgetting the masculine/feminine endings for words and secondly, using the singular/plural in the wrong place...they say that English is complicated! Don't get me wrong, I think that French is a beautiful language, but I've never been able to get much beyond asking basic directions and questions. The French people I've met over there are very tolerant of my schoolgirl mangling of their language :lol:

Secret Song...You've given me another excuse to watch the film, thank you :lol:
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Nightingale's Angel

Post Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:18 am

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Operatart wrote:That was always my downfall...Firstly, forgetting the masculine/feminine endings for words and secondly, using the singular/plural in the wrong place...they say that English is complicated!


Operatart, it's wonderful you are able to understand our rampant Americanese, though it is getting to the point that I may need a 'hip-hop' dictionary to decipher some of the younger ones.

What is that expression...two countries divided by a common language?
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