PG.Net Ambassador
Posts: 4619
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:42 pm
Location: Long ago, in a land far, far away...
Mystery Angel
Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:45 pm
~
:heart: The Hidden Plot :heart:
SUMMARY of “We Have All Been Blind” & “Twisted Every Way”
Paragraph summary: Raoul forms a plan of treason, a plot to usurp Erik, the king, and put an end to his reign; a plan Christine doesn't want any part of for various reasons shown...
Raoul and the others march through a narrow backstage corridor. As they do the people come to watch--if you look at them carefully you see some interesting things. (more on this in a bit) Raoul has decided to catch the Phantom his way, without checking with the intended queen, whom he’s supposed to serve. He has become overconfident from winning the sword fight earlier, and has decided to take matters into his own hands sure he can win this time too. But Erik is still a king of this musical kingdom, so what they’re doing is considered treason...and something else--Raoul went up against the king in that sword fight. He pulled his sword first. (Part of his "sins" as in—“why would I make her pay for the sins which are yours?!”)
RAOUL: “We have all been blind…”
It’s the kingdom rule not to look too closely and “keep your hand at the level of your eyes”—again, this line seems to have dual meaning for the hidden plot and is not only about avoiding the Punjab lasso. The blindfolded statues showed ignorance. From symbolism website: Blindness symbolizes a refusal to see reality … it could mean ignorance, darkness, error or impartiality. And now Raoul is making them all open their eyes to see what’s there. Again, the “pageboy” (who symbolized Raoul in Il Muto) refuses to be silent. While it is good that he is trying to destroy the darkness, it is not good that he’s also trying to destroy the king, and his reasoning/motive is wrong too.
RAOUL: ”And yet the answer is staring us in the face
This could be the chance to ensnare our clever friend”
He calls him a friend here. And important to remember for later, he called the music box a friend in other lyrics...
ANDRE: “We're listening...”
FIRMIN: “Go on.”
RAOUL: “We shall play his game, perform his work, but remember we hold the ace..."
I feel this could refer to the line in an alternate version of masquerade: “Splash of green, Flash of brown, Ace of hearts (meaning Christine and Erik—see below) Face of clown. The only one who is wearing both green and brown is Andre. Therefore, he is the clown of the hidden plot (another word for fool), like a jester. And he does have some witty quips. Because this is all worded with the prepositions “of” it all appears to go together. Also, on p. 95, they show Andre wearing this green/brown vest in Notes—but he wore a black/white one in movie.
And again, in Masquerade, before they sing “Ace of hearts”, they show a couple dressed as the Ace of spades—as if a clue that the “ace of hearts” refers to a man and woman. Symbolic meaning of ace of hearts: the communion between 2 souls with a beauty that can never be forgotten or ignored.
It's also the "search for love" card, and the "desire for love" card. So, with those clues in mind, when they say they hold the “ace”—they are talking about both Christine and Erik here—Christine being the bait that will trap the king.
Through many clues, they have now shown us all of the main characters' roles for the hidden plot—the cast of this musical fantasy kingdom:
Erik: King
Christine: Queen (intended)
Raoul: Priest to Christine, (meaning serves her/aids her, leads her to light and tries to help her stay in it)
Madame Giry: Priest(ess) to both the king and for first half of movie, the Phantom spirit, (meaning serves them/aids them/performs rituals, etc)
Meg: herald to the king/phantom, but there’s more…
Carlotta: Fool
Firmin: Goose (fool)
Andre: Clown (jester—also fool)
As Raoul sings, they pass the white Lion medallion, much like the gold one M. Giry was standing in front of with open book and golden ceremonial goblet in POTO intro. A strange place to hang something like that—in a narrow corridor, backstage, unless it serves as an icon, reminding them of who they serve.
They also show a woman dressed in Japanese clothing—and wearing sunglasses (which I’m not sure they even had then, so maybe they are darkened spectacles--but it is strange to wear them in a dark corridor. This could be another hint at them being blind and not seeing well—also another clue as to these men’s ignorance…To the far left is a wizened looking man who appears to look into camera as he stirs something in a bowl—all the bowls are clay colored—except three they show as the camera continues to move back. These three bowls are two red, one green. (3 colored bowls = phantom (his number)…2 red—possession/control of Erik {King''s color, and I think 2 means possession/control}—one green—Christine/queen, her number, her color…just a thought) Three flames are in torch as they end their song. Perhaps to show phantom spirit heard all that too…At the far right, they show what looks like a Native American girl, right after they show the Japanese woman, and they show other nationalities throughout this song, besides. Maybe for France in this time period, such diverse nationalities were normal at an opera house? Seems a bit strange to me though…as if they’re trying to say more through this. Like the opera house is symbolic of the world.
RAOUL: “For if Miss Daae sings he is certain to attend
ANDRE: “We are certain the doors are barred”
FIRMIN: “We are certain the police are there”
RAOUL: “We are certain they are armed”
RAOUL/ANDRE/FIRMIN: “The curtain falls, His reign will end!”
“His reign” is a key clue that they’re talking about a ruler or king—and yet another clue he is one. (The other objects in his lair point to kingship too—if it was just about him taking those things, {which I don’t believe he did and I think was part of the set designers aid to the viewers in telling a hidden story}, then those subjects of the opera house wouldn’t refer to him in kingly terms. That they use terms like “his reign” and others shows they consider him a king.)
Notice M. Giry’s expression during all this. At first she’s listening, obviously not happy with what she’s hearing. When they sing this last part, she shakes her head as if to show her displeasure and that they are making a big mistake right before they do a very quick switch to next scene. If you look at Carlotta, she smiles after what they say, first time for her to do so in this scene. She wants to be queen—the sole ruler.
Phantom/Erik comes through the frescoed window and slides down to ready the chandelier for falling. I feel they show it’s the Phantom/Erik here because he’s wearing black leather gloves with his white shirt and pants. He’s not dressed up like he’s always been when he wore the gloves before, and for his informal attire, not only are the gloves not necessary, they are strange for 19th century etiquette in clothing. Gloves symbolize power and protection in the symbols chart, and black is the Phantom’s color. I believe they are showing he is under Phantom’s power/control as he does this. Another clue that Phantom spirit was responsible for bringing down the chandelier. Notice the rope holding the chandelier is red—King’s color. Symbolic meaning of rope: The rope may be considered to represent binding and limiting or infinite freedom, depending upon the context in which it is encountered. At this point, Erik is bound. Also, what looks like turtledoves are the frescos of that window.
Raoul comes into chapel--in companion book it says he follows after Christine runs away. More on that soon. Notice he is wearing a sword.
Also, the lamp that was here is gone, and now there is a different source of fire/light. I can't think of what these are called right now, but it might be significant that they have changed what once was there in AOM.
When studying the songs, line by line, instead of just taking them in as a whole—one gets an eye-opening look at what is being said…
CHRISTINE: “Raoul, I'm frightened... Don't make me do this. . .”
As she rises, she lifts her skirt--a strange thing to do when rising. Instead of smoothing her skirt down, she lifts the hem a few feet so the viewer is drawn to look at the bottom of her skirt and in that area. They show TWO things, one of which I brought up before.
A) Per masquerade song—“Green and black, Queen and Priest”—(her skirt is a dark murky green and she’s wearing a black ribbon. When compared with the black ribbon, you can really see the difference in the colors and they even show a back view of her head twice so the black ribbon is clearer. Since the Masquerade song is about Erik— his signature song— this is showing who these people are to him. Christine is his queen, and Raoul is her priest (meaning he serves her), later to become his. (more on that later.)
B) Under her skirt she was hiding a red book (or a pillow. Not sure, but the important thing is that it’s red.) Red is the color of the Angel of Music, as shown in song and in previous clues (red in the rose, what he wears in WSS, her petticoat/underskirt, etc). Three guesses who she was thinking about and who her heart is really with at this time...but she’s hiding it. She did the same at the masquerade ball. She wore a red underskirt that we could only see as red for a few seconds in “swirl of gown.”
Again, the way she rises to her feet is odd—look at how she pulls up that edge of her dress. When most ladies rise from the ground, they try to keep their skirt down—she is pulling it up. I believe this is a clue to not only look at her skirt, but to look underneath it. Like the dwarf always looking under ladies skirts could be a clue to look for what hides beneath Christine’s skirts. In Masquerade, she had the red petticoat. Here she has the red book/pillow. And in the companion book when they show her on that inside track in TOM song—p. 74--the hem of her overskirt is turned up several inches. (I’ll get the picture for that today). On the rooftop, her cloak was both red and purple inside—Phoenix colors, the Phoenix being symbolic of Erik. (More later.) To tell a hidden story they mainly relied on the visual, and they did much of it with colors and props.
Again, she is wearing green skirt and black ribbon— the green is very murky- matching the walls (which are green the color of the queen- and where she often finds solace- her "room")
From Masquerade: Green and black, queen and priest…she is queen.
Christine: “It scares me, Don't put me through this ordeal by fire.”
An "ordeal by fire" is a strong testing—and an "ordeal by fire" as opposed to a "trial by fire" (which is very similar) is used only in the case of nobility (like a queen). Since Christine is Erik’s intended queen, "ordeal by fire" fits for her, and this is another clue showing she is royal...a queen.
From wikipedia: Trial by ordeal is a judicial practice by which the guilt or innocence of the accused is determined by subjecting them to a painful task…. Ordeal of fire: This test typically required that the accused walk a certain distance, usually nine feet, over red-hot ploughshares or holding a red-hot iron. Innocence was sometimes established by a complete lack of injury.
Trials by ordeal were a pagan custom that took on added ritual when Christianity was introduced into England. There were various ordeals, and at different times certain ordeals were reserved for people of higher rank,…The ordeals of the red-hot iron and the plowshares were also called the fire ordeals and were often reserved for nobility. (from Thomas & Gale Legal Encyclopedia-- http://www.answers.com/topic/ordeal)
also one site said this: A difficult or painful experience, especially one that severely tests character or endurance....
A method of trial in which the accused was subjected to physically painful or dangerous tests, the result being regarded as a divine judgment of guilt or innocence.
She knows she will be tested. (That they used these words in the song and that she is being tested is interesting—to determine her innocence/guilt in her connection with Erik, perhaps?) She knows it will be very hard for her to say no to Erik. She’s never been able to do so before, and it was ALWAYS her choice to go to him. Always. She made the decision to go to him based upon what she wanted—this is important to remember.
1) At mirror when he asked her to come to him, she hesitated then took his hand. The hesitation showed she made the choice. Her choice.
2) At masquerade ball when he asked her to return to him, she went forward, her eyes hopeful, a little smile on her face. Her choice.
3) At cemetery, she was so desperate to be with him, that—even when logic told her she shouldn’t, that when the gates opened—“Wildly my mind beats against you”—she went forward anyway. –“Yet the soul obeys” (soul—emotions).
She has NEVER held back from Erik, partly because they are one spirit, soul mates, and in unity with each other (as his crescent moon within blazing sun candlestick shows, one of many clues). They are both Music in this allegory, shown by the blue rays of light, that they both call each other Angel of Music, and more clues they’ve shown. He IS music, and he made her into Music.
”He'll take me, I know. . .”
He has never taken her forcefully in all of movie, so this is a strange thing to say if it’s about Erik. —It has always been a plea on his part—“Come to me, Angel of Music. . .” “If pride will let her return to me, her teacher, her teacher”—even in Wandering Child/AOM, he asked her to come…” They always showed it like this—maybe so we could remember that and realize what she’s really saying here. That “once I am with him, I will be his.” She knows this in her heart, because she loves Erik, cannot stop thinking about him (i.e. hiding red under skirts shows this, and later, her words show this in the translations), but the darkness scares her. She’s afraid of the Phantom spirit that’s his companion. This could also be relating to the Phantom spirit working through Erik to take her for his—the Phantom’s. They both want her.
”We'll be parted forever...”
The way she said this made it look like a desperate attempt to get Raoul to change his mind about her doing what he’s arranged—using her as bait to trap the king. However, she DOES want the light and to live in it, so I think it was in reference to this too.
”He won't let me go.”
Erik has never shown this—he took her back in STYDI, in fact, very quickly. He’s never held her with him against her will. She’s not speaking physical captivity here, because she wouldn’t think this since he has never shown himself to be that way. She’s saying he won’t let go of her heart and mind. Again, partly because she wants the same—but she doesn’t want any part of the evil she now knows is there. The Phantom has begun speaking into her mind as well, (WHYBMH), and she doesn’t want any part of him.
”What I once used to dream, I now dread. If he finds me, it won't ever end.”
If she’s so worried about Erik finding her, then what's she doing in the chapel—the place where they often met? And again, the red book that was hidden under her skirt shows us where her heart really is at this time. This shows her true feelings in the matter. She knows that she’s so connected to him that if he crooks his finger, she'll go to him. Her feelings for Erik have gotten stronger since their face-to-face meeting, and it scares her, again because of the darkness she’s seen in him. Remember too, she just admitted she loved him at cemetery. (In Spanish subtitles)
CHRISTINE: [sung] "And he'll always be there, singing songs in my head... He'll always be there, singing songs in my head..."
I think this refers both to Phantom and Erik.
Notice that now Raoul doesn’t have the sword at his side—but when he entered the room, he did. The sword symbolizes power, protection, authority, strength, and courage in the symbolism website—perhaps the fact that it is now missing as he approaches Christine shows that he is really not in power as he thinks he is—not in authority—and that Christine will come up with her own plan. More on that later… It could also show he’s no longer protected from this point on...
RAOUL: “You said yourself, he was nothing but a man...Yet while he lives, He will haunt us 'til we're dead.”
One of our sleuthers said this is sung close to how old Raoul sings to music box at auction. “Every detail, exactly as she said...will you still play when all the rest of us are dead?” Also, it is sung as Christine sang "Yet in his eyes, all the sadness of the world, those pleading eyes that both threaten and adore." Because of those similarities, this points to all three instances relating to same thing. These words are not sung about the Phantom spirit—it’s to the man. You can’t kill a spirit. And the music box symbolizes Erik…
She turns away, not at all happy with what Raoul just sang. Companion book even says, “CHRISTINE turns away, unhappily.” She doesn’t want to hear Raoul’s talk of killing Erik. Raoul senses that no matter where he takes Christine, she’ll always be thinking of Erik—(the red she always hides shows this) and Erik will always come between them, even in his absence—which is why Raoul says “he will haunt US”—so he’s telling her the only way they can have peace as a couple is by killing him. Something important here--Raoul has never yet seen Erik and Christine together. He’s only seen the Phantom controlling Erik. And he’s never heard them sing together either, though he did recognize Erik’s spirit through Christine’s mind—and called out “bravo” instead of “brava” in TOM (though he mouthed brava). But he still doesn’t realize how strongly she and Erik are connected. Nor was he in the ballroom when Erik sang to Christine and his subjects “she is worthy, worthy”—which sounds as if he was telling them she was worthy to be his queen.
CHRISTINE: “Twisted every way, what answer can I give?”
If she’s twisted every way, she’s saying she doesn’t want to betray Erik—as shown below.
CHRISTINE: "Am I to risk my life to win the chance to live?"
She wants the light, to live in the light. She was ready to give herself to Erik at the cemetery, deciding to accept the darkness just to be with him. But this scene shows she’s been thinking hard about how she almost did that, and realizes now it would have been a mistake and wouldn't have benefitted her or Erik.
CHRISTINE: "Can I betray the man who once inspired my voice?
Do I become his prey? Do I have any choice?
He kills without a thought, he murders all that's good. . .”
JB was in no way “good” and that is the only murder she knows about. She’s talking about the feelings between her and Erik and how he’s tried to “poison their love” by the dark things that have happened and the darkness he's become a part of.
CHRISTINE: ”I know I can't refuse...And yet, I wish I could
Oh God, if I agree, what horrors wait for me
In this, the Phantom's opera...”
This is the 3rd time in entire movie she has used the name “Phantom.” This shows she knows who is behind this, evil, and whose opera this really is. She’s not scared of Erik—but of the Phantom who controls him. By using this name, it shows that. Raoul also knows about or senses the darkness-evil—of the man because of what he said at the cemetery—“this thing is not your father”—something Christine already knew, that Erik wasn’t her father. But Raoul has seen only the evil controlling Erik, nothing else.
One other thing—regarding her fear of being in this opera—she has no idea that Erik will make an appearance on stage…at this point, she has no idea what will happen, but remembering Il Muto, she’s worried.
RAOUL: “Christine, Christine, Don't think that I don't care. But every hope, and every prayer rests on you now.”
As they hug, they make sure to get a clear shot of that red book/pillow--again, I feel to show that her heart is still with her Angel and that she's thinking of him here. Also, so we the viewers could see it better. Three candles are lit on each side of memorial section-- 3= Phantom spirit, and his power is about to invade...this could also show he is watching them. One sleuther caught what looks like two pindots of light—like eyes—in a place where it doesn’t fit (next to Christine when she’s sitting on window seat.) The three candles being there could also show that the Phantom was listening to what was said.
This whole conversation was much like the way a queen would consult her priest before doing something very difficult and dangerous. Even that it took place in a chapel seems significant. Again, Raoul is not obeying the kingdom rule, and he’s telling her that she must save the kingdom and her people; and she alone can do it by capturing the king and ending his reign over them, since she’s the only one who’s close to him. He also has personal reasons—he wants Christine—and he thinks the only way she’ll forget the man and see him (Raoul) as a lover is if the King was dead. He has no idea yet how close Erik and Christine really are...
*The following scene is third in act 2 of libretto—an omitted scene that shows more clearly who these characters were and what was in their minds/hearts. While it’s not clear if the hidden plot extends to the stage show—some say yes, some say no—it does give a more in-depth look at who these people are. Having had experience in the entertainment industry, I think ALW could have shown hints & planned something in the back of his mind with the stage show—then really flown with it for movie and added much more, taking some things out—changing things around to fit the idea better, adding to his idea with JS’s help—all to make a full-fledged hidden story to be found within the movie.
CARLOTTA: (dryly) Ah! Here’s our little flower!
(rose?
)
ANDRE: (explaining): You have secured the largest role in this ‘Don Juan’.
CHRISTINE: “This isn’t my fault! I don’t want any part in this plot!
CHRISTINE: “I cannot sing it, duty or not!
RAOUL: (comforting) “Christine. . .Christine. . .You don’t have to. . . they can’t make you. . .
(spoken) Your obedient friend. . .
(The PHANTOM’S voice fades out and GIRY takes over)
GIRY: (spoken): “. . .and Angel. . .”
(Attention now focuses on RAOUL, whose eyes are suddenly bright with a new thought)
We shall play his game—perform his work—but remember we hold the ace. . .For if Miss Daae sings, he is certain to attend. . .
(ALL have been listening intently, GIRY is the first to express a reaction. CHRISTINE remains silent and withdrawn)
GIRY: Madness! This is madness! Monsieur, believe me—there is no way of turning the tide.
RAOUL: (rounding on GIRY): “Then help us!”
GIRY: “Monsieur, I can’t. . .”
RAOUL: “Instead of warning us. . .”
GIRY: “I wish I could. . .”
RAOUL/ANDRE/FIRMIN: “Don’t make excuses!”
RAOUL: “Or could it be that you’re on his side?”
GIRY: “Monsieur, believe me, I intend no ill. . .”
(to ANDRE and FIRMIN) But, messieurs, be careful—we have seen him kill. . .
ANDRE/FIRMIN: (to RAOUL): If you succeed,
you free us all—this so called ‘angel’ has to fall!
RAOUL: “Angel of music, fear my fury—Here is where you fall!
GIRY: “Hear my warning! Fear his fury!”
CARLOTTA: “What glory can she hope to gain? It’s clear to all the girl’s insane!”
FIRMIN: (to ANDRE): “If Christine helps us in this plan. . .
RAOUL: “Say your prayers, black angel of death!”
(yet another reference/clue to Phantom spirit actually being Angel of Death)
CHRISTINE: (vainly pleading amidst the tumult): “Please don’t. . .”
ANDRE: (to FIRMIN): “If Christine won’t, then no one can. ..”
GIRY: (to RAOUL) ”Monsieur, I beg you, do not do this. . .”
CHRISTINE: (bursting through the hubbub with a great cry): “If you don’t stop, I’ll go mad!” (to RAOUL, pleading) “Raoul, I’m frightened—don’t make me do this. . .Raoul, it scares me—don’t put me through this ordeal by fire. . .he’ll take me, I know. . .we’ll be parted for ever. . .he won’t let me go. . . (all sung) What I once used to dream I now dread. . . if he finds me, it won’t ever end. . . and he’ll always be there, singing songs in my head. . .
CARLOTTA: (spoken): “She’s mad.”
RAOUL: “You said yourself he was nothing but a man. . .Yet while he lives, he will haunt us till we’re dead. . .”
(CHRISTINE turns away, unhappily)
RAOUL: “every hope and every prayer rests on you now. . .”
(CHRISTINE, overcome by her conflicting emotions, turns away and hurries out. RAOUL strides forward and addresses an imaginary PHANTOM)
RAOUL: (spoken): “So, it is to be war between us! But this time, clever friend, the disaster will be yours!”
**COMPANION BOOK CLUES**
Companion book screenplay shows this after WHABB—(they didn’t show it in movie—instead they immediately cut to the police)—but it might help us understand Christine’s feelings at the time in chapel. “RAOUL notices CHRISTINE watching from the wings. Her look; accusation and fear. She turns and runs from him.” (p. 125) This tells me she wasn’t at all happy to hear of their plan to catch the Phantom/Erik, nor is she happy with Raoul for his idea of using her as bait. IOW, her trust level toward Raoul has just dropped a notch.
We see a legion of gendarme march past (and in b&w scene before this, where Raoul is remembering, A LEGION OF GENDARME is capped and underlined in companion book, so I think this might be important here too, since they don’t show that part in movie, with b&w Raoul.)
**SPANISH SUBTITLES TRANSLATIONS BY PMA & Promiseme & co.**
RAOUL: "We have all been blind"
Sí, será un buen plan
Yes, it will be a good plan
"And yet the answer is staring us in the face"
Todo es factible y sencillo
Si, así lo véis
You will see that everything is feasible and simple… If therefore see {?}
"This could be our chance, to ensnare our clever friend"
Es nuestra occasion
Si esto marcha y sale bien
This could be our chance if all goes as planned
We’re listening, go on
Somos todo oídos, señor
*We are all ears, gentleman
RAOUL: "We shall play his game"
Al hacer Don Juan
When we make Don Juan
Perform his work but remember we hold the ace
Probad su juego sabiendo
Que el as tenéis
*You prove his game knowing
That the ace you have
"For if Miss Daae sings"
Pues al cantar Christine
When Christine sings
"He is certain to attend"
La oirá ya sabéis quien
He will hear her, you know who I mean[referring to 'he']
from honey: Perhaps he is afraid to say his name because he knows it’s treason, and is trying to be secretive about it, in case of spies. The three candles at the end of this scene implies there was—the Phantom spirit.
We are certain the doors are barred
Las salidas se cerrarán
*The exits will be closed
We are certain the police are there
Y los guardias se pondrán allí
*And the guards will put themselves there
We are certain they are armed
Bien armados irán
*Armed well they will go
The curtain falls
Caerá el talon
*The curtain will fall
"His reign will end!"
Caerá él también
He also will fall
TEW
Christine:
Raoul, I’m frightened
Raoul, estoy aterrada.
*Raoul, I am terrified.
Don’t make me do this
No me obligues a hacer esto.
*Do not force to me to do this.
Raoul. It scares me.
Raoul. Me da miedo.
*Raoul. It gives fear to me.
"Don't put me through this ordeal by fire."
No me hagas atravesar este infierno.
*Don't make go through this hell
He’ll take me, I know
Él me llevará. Lo sé.
*It (he?) will take me. I know it.
We’ll be parted forever
Partiremos para siempre.
*Divided forever (?)
"He won't let me go"
Nunca me dejará libre.
*He'll never set me free
from honey: Remember when she said, “Please Raoul, it’s useless”—this whole section reminds me of that. As if she’s saying is, “I’m his, he’s ordained it, so just let it go and don’t make me do something I don’t want to do—that will be hell for me and could hurt me.” Also this could relate to the phantom spirit that will never set her free.
What I once used to dream I now dread
Aquello que fue un sueño es ahora un temor.
*What was a dream, is now a fear.
If he finds me it won’t ever end
…Si me encuentra, no habrá final
*If it (he?) finds me, there will be no end
And he’ll always be there singing songs in my head, he’ll always be there singing songs in my head.
Él va a estar siempre aquí
Y en mi mente hablará
va a estar siempre aquí
Siempre me cantará
*It (he?) is going to always be here
And in my mind it (he?) will speak
It (He?) will always sing to me
Raoul
You said yourself he was nothing but a man..."
te oí decir
Que era un hombre y es verdad
He was nothing but a man, and it's the truth
another translation: I heard you say that he was a man, and it’s the truth.
"Yet while he lives, he will haunt us till we're dead"
Si ha de vivir
Nuestra muerte
Deseará
If he lives, our death he will desire
from honey: his death I can understand—because it’s true. But this shows me that Raoul thought Erik planned to kill Christine at the cemetery. To give him credit, he’s only seen the Phantom/Erik. He’ll soon learn the truth though.
Christine:
Twisted every way what answer can I give
¿Qué respuestas hay?
¿Qué puedo yo añadir?
What answers are there?
*What can I add?
"Am I to risk my life"
¿Hablando o rebelándome
Speaking or revealing myself
another translation: Speaking or rebelling to me
"To win the chance to live"
Deseando huir?
Wishing to flee?
from honey: This is worded as if she wonders if she should speak and warn the king—or rebel against him. That she wishes to flee what Raoul says she must do in revealing herself as bait--and she is considering warning the king by speaking to him.
"Can I betray the man"
¿Callarme, hacer el mal
Remain silent and do this wrong
from honey: She is saying straight out that if she remains silent and doesn’t warn the king, she feels she is committing a wrong.
"Who once inspired my voice?"
Al que inspiró mi voz?
Against him who once inspired my voice
"Do I become his prey? Do I have any choice?"
Lanzarme no podéis
A un riesgo tan atroz
You cannot throw me into such an awful risk
from honey: She knows that even for a queen to disobey the king can be dangerous and she can’t believe Raoul force her into doing it.
"He kills without a thought"
Él quema el corazón
He burns the heart
from honey: meaning she’s loved him and he’s wounded her
"He murders all that's good"
Él mata sin razón
He kills without reason
"I know I can't refuse..."
Estamos a su albur
We are all at his disposal
from honey: When a person is at someone's disposal, that means that they are made available to him and must do whatever he commands.
"And yet I wish I could"
Y yo soy su obsesión
And I am his obsession
from honey: another word for obsession: fascination/passion
"Oh God, if I agree"
Oh, Dios
Si cedo aquí
Oh God, If I yield here
What horrors wait for me
¿Qué horror me espera a mí
*What horror waits for me
From honey: Notice the singular horror, not plural; horror could mean phantom spirit
"In this, the Phantom's opera"
Sin ti, de fuego y sombra?
Without you, of fire and shadow?
from honey: Yield—surrender. Fire and shadow—Erik (sun god—Phoenix—fire) & Phantom. . (shadow/darkness). In other words: Without you who has both fire and shadow—Erik. Since he also relies on Phantom; he is both “of fire and shadow.”
To make it easier, using names— “Oh God, what will the phantom do to me, if I yield to this plan without your knowledge, Erik?” It sounds as if she’s saying if she does this thing and surrenders to what Raoul wants of her, behind the king’s back, and does what she feels is wrong without warning the king (“speak or reveal myself/rebel?”)—she still wants Erik and is afraid to be without him—wondering what horror awaits her if she yields to Raoul’s plan.
Her fears are all about the darkness and being taken by the Phantom spirit. She wants to end the reign/captivity of darkness, without harming the king, but is afraid to go through with the plan as Raoul has revealed it to her, fearing both for herself and for Erik. And PONR shows she changes the plan, coming up with her own plan once Erik takes the stage, which leads back to this moment…more later…
RAOUL: "Don't think that I don't care"
No es ruin
It isn't contemptible
"But every hope and every prayer rests on you now"
Es un deber
Mas la elección
It's your duty and the choice
from honey: If it’s her “duty” this is coming right out and saying she is second in command—the intended queen—and she must do what is expected of her. To have Raoul say it’s not contemptible shows that she thought that’s exactly what it was. It’s “the choice” that has been made for her. (definition of contemptible: disgraceful, loathsome, despicable, dishonorable, etc.) This shows she’s not in favor of Raoul’s plan, and not just because she’s scared. Because she feels it’s wrong.
**FRENCH SUBTITLES TRANSLATIONS BY Mia & Co.**
RAOUL: We have all been blind. And yet the answer is staring us in the face.
Oui je sais comment
Dès à présent mettre un terme
A ses maléfices.
Yes I know how from now on to put an end to his evil spells
Evil spells points to phantom spirit
This could be the chance to ensnare our clever friend.
Il ne devrait plus
Bien longtemps nous tenir tête
He should not any more
Hold us a long time lead (position of leadership)
Saying he won’t be in leadership any longer, though he’s held them there a long time
ANDRE: We’re listening...
Oui, et bien?
Yes, well?
FIRMIN: Go on...
Alors?
Then?
RAOUL: We shall play his game - perform his work - but remember we hold the ace...
Vous jouerez sa pièce,
Mais, voyez-vous,
Cela même nous rendra service,
We will play his piece, but you see that same .................return a favor
another translation: You will play his part, but, you see, that to us will even render service
For if Miss Daae sings, he is certain to attend...
Car si Christine chante,
oui, c’est sûr il faut qu’il guette.
Because if Christine sings, yes, it is sure he is on the lookout
ANDRE: We are certain the doors are barred...
Oui, c’est sûr, on verrouille les portes.
Yes, it’s sure, the doors are locked
FIRMIN: We are certain the police are there...we are certain they’re armed
Oui, c’est sûr, la sûreté sera là.
Oui, c’est sûr, elle s’arme.
Yes, it is sure, the police will be there
Yes, it is sure, she is armed.
another translation: Yes, it is sure safety will be there. Yes, it is sure, she is armed.
Interesting how they are saying Christine will be armed…elle is the feminine pronoun for she/her.
RAOUL/ANDRE/FIRMIN: The curtain falls, his reign will end
Le rideau tombe,
sur sa défaite.
The curtain falls, on his defeat.
TWISTED EVERY WAY
Raoul, I’m frightened - don’t make me do this...
Raoul, j’ai peur.
Ne m’y oblige pas.
Raoul, I’m afraid. Don’t force me.
Raoul, it scares me - don’t put me through this ordeal by fire...
Raoul, je crains le pire.
Ne m’oblige pas à traverser les flammes.
Raoul, I fear the worst. Don’t force me to go through the fire.
another translation: Raoul, I fear the worst. Do not force me to cross the flames.
From honey: Just a thought—she crossed the bridge in PONR and underneath were flames.
He’ll take me, I know...We’ll be parted forever...He won’t let me go...
Il va m’emporter,
je’en suis sûre.
Nous serons séparés à jamais.
Il n’abandonnera pas.
He’ll take me, I am sure...He won’t let me go...
another translation: He will take me, I am sure. We will be separate forever. He will not give up.
What I once used to dream, I now dread...
Ce qui naguère n’était qu’un rêve,
maintenant m’inquiète.
What I once used to dream, now worries me...
If he finds me, it won’t ever end...
S’il me trouve, je n’en aurai jamais fini.
If he finds me, it will never be finished...
And he’ll always be there, singing songs in my head...
Et toujours il viendra
Fredonner dans ma tête...
And he will always come to sing softly in my head...
(repeats)
You said yourself he was nothing but a man...
Tu dis toi-même
Que ce n’est qu’un être humain.
You said yourself that he was only a human.
Yet while he lives, he will haunt us till we’re dead...
Mais tant qu’il vit,
nous vivons sous
Sa baguette.
But while he lives, we live under his rod. (staff)
From honey: Another clue to kingship—rod is like a king’s scepter, his rule/authority…
Twisted every way, what answer can I give?
Déchirée ainsi,
A l’heure decisive,
Torn this way, at this critical time,
Am I to risk my life to win the chance to live?
Comment risquer moi-même
L’ultime tentative?
How to risk myself, the final attempt?
From honey: She has long tried to bring Erik into the light from clues shown, but Raoul’s way of putting an end to the darkness—the final attempt—is dangerous because she feels she is deceiving/betraying the king by keeping silent, and is unsure what will happen.
Can I betray the man who once inspired my voice?
Quant à tromper l’auteur
De ma metamorphose,
As to deceive the author of my transformation,
Do I become his prey? Do I have any choice?
Cela me fait si peur,
Pourtant, il faut que j’ose …
That makes me so afraid, though it is necessary that I dare...
He kills without a thought, he murders all that’s good...
Il rit de la souffrance,
Ses meurtres me dégoûtent.
He laughs at the suffering, his murders disgust me.
From honey: in other translations, when laughter is used talking about Erik, it says he doesn’t laugh. She’s talking about the phantom here, I think.
I know I can’t refuse, and yet, I wish I could.
Dire non, ce serait fou,
Alors, pourquoi ces doutes?
To say no, it would be insane, then why these doubts?
From honey: from clues shown, she doubts because she loves Erik and doesn’t want to see him harmed.
Oh God - if I agree, what horrors wait for me in this...the Phantom’s Opera...?
Oh, quel que soit mon choix,
Quelle donc sera pour moi
L’issue du fatal opéra?
Oh, whatever my choice, what then will be for me the outcome of the fatal opera?
Fatal—deadly; she is questioning—whatever my choice, what will happen to me?—as if knowing either way she will lose. If she agrees to the plan to end his reign and capture him, she is asking what the result of this will be for her. Or, if she doesn’t agree, she wonders what will happen to her with the result of the opera. She’s saying she can’t win either way. Either she loses him, or she winds up forever in the darkness. She doesn’t want either.
RAOUL: Christine, Christine, don’t think that I don’t care - but every hope and every prayer rests on you now...
Christine, Christine, je suis que l’heure est noire,
Mais tu regroupes
Tous nos espoirs
De le vaincre...
Christine, Christine, I know the hour is black, but you gather all our hopes to overcome him.
**ITALIAN TRANSLATIONS by Angelofdarknss**
RAOUL: We have all been blind. And yet the answer is staring us in the face.
Lui è furbo, ma la soluzione è facile, io so qual è
He is sly/slick, but the solution is easy I know what it is
This could be the chance to ensnare our clever friend.
Sì, per me la chance che risolve i nostri guai
Yes, for me the chance that resolves our troubles
Andre: We’re listening...
Continuate!
Continue!
FIRMIN: Go on...
Suvvia!
Come on!
RAOUL: We shall play his game - perform his work - but remember we hold the ace...
Noi lo prenderemo, Si può allestire a teatro il suo "Don Juan"
We will catch him, His “Don Juan” can be prepared onstage
For if Miss Daae sings, he is certain to attend...
Se c'è Christine Daae certo lui non mancherà!
If Christine Daae is there certainly he will not be missing!
ANDRE: We are certain the doors are barred...
Ed accoglierlo noi sapremo
And we will know to welcome him
FIRMIN/RAOUL: We are certain the police are there...we are certain they’re armed
La polizia lo prenderà, Tutti armati saremo
The police will catch him, We will all be armed
RAOUL/ANDRE/FIRMIN: The curtain falls, his reign will end
Lo giuro a voi, non scapperà!
I swear to you, he will not escape!
TEW
The translation starts from when she begins singing “and he’ll always be there singing songs in my head.”
And he’ll always be there, singing songs in my head...
...e sarà sempre lì a cantare per me… sarà sempre lì a cantare per me
…and he will always be there to sing for me…
he will always be there to sing for me
RAOUL: You said yourself he was nothing but a man...
l'hai detto tu era un uomo, nulla più
you have said he was a man, nothing more
RAOUL: Yet while he lives, he will haunt us till we’re dead...
finchè vivrà lui mai tregua ci darà
as long as he will live he will never offer us a truce
from honey: A “truce” as in war.
CHRISTINE: Twisted every way, what answer can I give?
Giorno di follia, decidere dovrei
Day of foolishness, I have to decide
Am I to risk my life to win the chance to live?
se per la libertà la vita rischierei
If for freedom I would risk life
Can I betray the man who once inspired my voice?
Tradire potrei io mai chi il canto mi ispirò
I never would be able to betray who inspired to me the song
Do I become his prey? Do I have any choice?
sarà per sempre in me ho visto gli occhi suoi
He will be for always in me, I have seen his eyes
He kills without a thought, he murders all that’s good...
orrende crudeltà, immensa frenesia
Horrendous cruelty, immense frenzy
I know I can’t refuse, and yet, I wish I could.
Accetterò, se vuoi vorrei fuggire via
I will accept, if you want(wish/demand), I want a way to escape
Oh God - if I agree, what horrors wait for me in this...the Phantom’s Opera...?
oh Dio, se dico sì a chi il mio cuor rapì vivrò l'orror supreme.
Oh God, if I say yes to whom kidnapped my heart I will live the supreme horror.
From honey: If he kidnapped her heart, that’s another way of saying he stole her heart—and that she loves him.
RAOUL: Christine, Christine, don’t think that I don’t care - but every hope and every prayer rests on you now...
Christine, Christine, so che ne soffrirai, ma noi vedremo cambiare il nostro futuro.
Christine, Christine, I know you suffer about about him. But we will see to change our future.
**THE SPOKEN WORD**
From what I found, I believe when lines are spoken after lines have been sung, it always refers to Angel of Music (him, her or both). This TEW scene isn’t broken away from song, instead it goes into it, but the spoken lines still refer to the Angel of Music—both her and Erik:
**SOUND SIMILARITIES**
WHABB--Unique
Raoul I’ve Been There when in the chapel
Prima Donna when Raoul says bit about hopes and prayers.
**MUSICAL ANALYSIS by Phantom’s Star**
Note: I think this is what the sounds stand for.
Flute: a calling
Harp: thinking of Angel—Angel of Music—(from honey: can be him or her)
Cymbals: Angel is there, or near (brush of cymbals)—loud crash—he is fully there.
1.)As we switch from Angel tossing his cloak and Raoul singing, we hear the cymbals on the word “we.” I think this shows that all hope is not yet lost for Angel. He’s still there, even after we witnessed the Phantom fully in the cemetery.
2.)Flute – “This could be the chance” – We hear the flute on this line. Raoul is calling for the managers to listen to his plan.
3.)Harp – “This could be the chance to ensnare our clever friend” – We hear the harp string on the word “this.” I think M. Giry is the one thinking of Angel (Erik) here since she is the only one in this scene that truly knows him. As Raoul continues singing, we hear the harp on:
We shall play his game (plucking of the harp strings)
Remember we hold the ace (on the word “ace,” we hear the harp strings)
The curtain falls (plucking of the harp strings)
I think the whole time we hear the harp here, I think it means M. Giry is thinking of Angel and concerned for him. She also shakes her head, which shows she doesn’t agree with Raoul’s plan.
from honey—that the harp played on “ace” could also show that ace is partly about him and Christine. (Ace of hearts)
4.)Flute – “For if Miss Daae sings he is certain to attend” – I think what the flute means here is that Angel can be called when Christine sings, and Raoul knows it.
5.)“His reign will end” – On the word “end,” we hear the cymbals. Is Angel/Phantom there listening to them and the plan? I think it’s quite possible.
6.)As the police are marching in, we hear the flute play with the melody starting on the 5th “Hut”. The police are being called to the opera house to capture Angel.
7.)Harp – “You said yourself he was nothing but a man.” After the word “man,” we hear the plucking of harp strings. I think further proof Christine is thinking of her Angel and remembering him.
8.)Harp – After Raoul sings, “But every hope and every pray rests on you now,” we faintly hear the brush of harp strings. Christine is thinking of Angel but pride will win out at this point (since we also hear the tune of Prima Donna). (We hear two low sounds of what I think is a tuba and right after, we hear the brush of harp strings.) We also slightly hear the brushing of cymbals. Again, is Angel near, listening? But since it’s only the brushing of cymbals, I think it can be Angel but not completely himself.
LINK to: Don Juan Triumphant
viewtopic.php?t=7293
SUMMARY of “We Have All Been Blind” & “Twisted Every Way”
Paragraph summary: Raoul forms a plan of treason, a plot to usurp Erik, the king, and put an end to his reign; a plan Christine doesn't want any part of for various reasons shown...
Raoul and the others march through a narrow backstage corridor. As they do the people come to watch--if you look at them carefully you see some interesting things. (more on this in a bit) Raoul has decided to catch the Phantom his way, without checking with the intended queen, whom he’s supposed to serve. He has become overconfident from winning the sword fight earlier, and has decided to take matters into his own hands sure he can win this time too. But Erik is still a king of this musical kingdom, so what they’re doing is considered treason...and something else--Raoul went up against the king in that sword fight. He pulled his sword first. (Part of his "sins" as in—“why would I make her pay for the sins which are yours?!”)
RAOUL: “We have all been blind…”
It’s the kingdom rule not to look too closely and “keep your hand at the level of your eyes”—again, this line seems to have dual meaning for the hidden plot and is not only about avoiding the Punjab lasso. The blindfolded statues showed ignorance. From symbolism website: Blindness symbolizes a refusal to see reality … it could mean ignorance, darkness, error or impartiality. And now Raoul is making them all open their eyes to see what’s there. Again, the “pageboy” (who symbolized Raoul in Il Muto) refuses to be silent. While it is good that he is trying to destroy the darkness, it is not good that he’s also trying to destroy the king, and his reasoning/motive is wrong too.
RAOUL: ”And yet the answer is staring us in the face
This could be the chance to ensnare our clever friend”
He calls him a friend here. And important to remember for later, he called the music box a friend in other lyrics...
ANDRE: “We're listening...”
FIRMIN: “Go on.”
RAOUL: “We shall play his game, perform his work, but remember we hold the ace..."
I feel this could refer to the line in an alternate version of masquerade: “Splash of green, Flash of brown, Ace of hearts (meaning Christine and Erik—see below) Face of clown. The only one who is wearing both green and brown is Andre. Therefore, he is the clown of the hidden plot (another word for fool), like a jester. And he does have some witty quips. Because this is all worded with the prepositions “of” it all appears to go together. Also, on p. 95, they show Andre wearing this green/brown vest in Notes—but he wore a black/white one in movie.
And again, in Masquerade, before they sing “Ace of hearts”, they show a couple dressed as the Ace of spades—as if a clue that the “ace of hearts” refers to a man and woman. Symbolic meaning of ace of hearts: the communion between 2 souls with a beauty that can never be forgotten or ignored.
It's also the "search for love" card, and the "desire for love" card. So, with those clues in mind, when they say they hold the “ace”—they are talking about both Christine and Erik here—Christine being the bait that will trap the king.
Through many clues, they have now shown us all of the main characters' roles for the hidden plot—the cast of this musical fantasy kingdom:
Erik: King
Christine: Queen (intended)
Raoul: Priest to Christine, (meaning serves her/aids her, leads her to light and tries to help her stay in it)
Madame Giry: Priest(ess) to both the king and for first half of movie, the Phantom spirit, (meaning serves them/aids them/performs rituals, etc)
Meg: herald to the king/phantom, but there’s more…
Carlotta: Fool
Firmin: Goose (fool)
Andre: Clown (jester—also fool)
As Raoul sings, they pass the white Lion medallion, much like the gold one M. Giry was standing in front of with open book and golden ceremonial goblet in POTO intro. A strange place to hang something like that—in a narrow corridor, backstage, unless it serves as an icon, reminding them of who they serve.
They also show a woman dressed in Japanese clothing—and wearing sunglasses (which I’m not sure they even had then, so maybe they are darkened spectacles--but it is strange to wear them in a dark corridor. This could be another hint at them being blind and not seeing well—also another clue as to these men’s ignorance…To the far left is a wizened looking man who appears to look into camera as he stirs something in a bowl—all the bowls are clay colored—except three they show as the camera continues to move back. These three bowls are two red, one green. (3 colored bowls = phantom (his number)…2 red—possession/control of Erik {King''s color, and I think 2 means possession/control}—one green—Christine/queen, her number, her color…just a thought) Three flames are in torch as they end their song. Perhaps to show phantom spirit heard all that too…At the far right, they show what looks like a Native American girl, right after they show the Japanese woman, and they show other nationalities throughout this song, besides. Maybe for France in this time period, such diverse nationalities were normal at an opera house? Seems a bit strange to me though…as if they’re trying to say more through this. Like the opera house is symbolic of the world.
RAOUL: “For if Miss Daae sings he is certain to attend
ANDRE: “We are certain the doors are barred”
FIRMIN: “We are certain the police are there”
RAOUL: “We are certain they are armed”
RAOUL/ANDRE/FIRMIN: “The curtain falls, His reign will end!”
“His reign” is a key clue that they’re talking about a ruler or king—and yet another clue he is one. (The other objects in his lair point to kingship too—if it was just about him taking those things, {which I don’t believe he did and I think was part of the set designers aid to the viewers in telling a hidden story}, then those subjects of the opera house wouldn’t refer to him in kingly terms. That they use terms like “his reign” and others shows they consider him a king.)
Notice M. Giry’s expression during all this. At first she’s listening, obviously not happy with what she’s hearing. When they sing this last part, she shakes her head as if to show her displeasure and that they are making a big mistake right before they do a very quick switch to next scene. If you look at Carlotta, she smiles after what they say, first time for her to do so in this scene. She wants to be queen—the sole ruler.
Phantom/Erik comes through the frescoed window and slides down to ready the chandelier for falling. I feel they show it’s the Phantom/Erik here because he’s wearing black leather gloves with his white shirt and pants. He’s not dressed up like he’s always been when he wore the gloves before, and for his informal attire, not only are the gloves not necessary, they are strange for 19th century etiquette in clothing. Gloves symbolize power and protection in the symbols chart, and black is the Phantom’s color. I believe they are showing he is under Phantom’s power/control as he does this. Another clue that Phantom spirit was responsible for bringing down the chandelier. Notice the rope holding the chandelier is red—King’s color. Symbolic meaning of rope: The rope may be considered to represent binding and limiting or infinite freedom, depending upon the context in which it is encountered. At this point, Erik is bound. Also, what looks like turtledoves are the frescos of that window.
Raoul comes into chapel--in companion book it says he follows after Christine runs away. More on that soon. Notice he is wearing a sword.
Also, the lamp that was here is gone, and now there is a different source of fire/light. I can't think of what these are called right now, but it might be significant that they have changed what once was there in AOM.
When studying the songs, line by line, instead of just taking them in as a whole—one gets an eye-opening look at what is being said…
CHRISTINE: “Raoul, I'm frightened... Don't make me do this. . .”
As she rises, she lifts her skirt--a strange thing to do when rising. Instead of smoothing her skirt down, she lifts the hem a few feet so the viewer is drawn to look at the bottom of her skirt and in that area. They show TWO things, one of which I brought up before.
A) Per masquerade song—“Green and black, Queen and Priest”—(her skirt is a dark murky green and she’s wearing a black ribbon. When compared with the black ribbon, you can really see the difference in the colors and they even show a back view of her head twice so the black ribbon is clearer. Since the Masquerade song is about Erik— his signature song— this is showing who these people are to him. Christine is his queen, and Raoul is her priest (meaning he serves her), later to become his. (more on that later.)
B) Under her skirt she was hiding a red book (or a pillow. Not sure, but the important thing is that it’s red.) Red is the color of the Angel of Music, as shown in song and in previous clues (red in the rose, what he wears in WSS, her petticoat/underskirt, etc). Three guesses who she was thinking about and who her heart is really with at this time...but she’s hiding it. She did the same at the masquerade ball. She wore a red underskirt that we could only see as red for a few seconds in “swirl of gown.”
Again, the way she rises to her feet is odd—look at how she pulls up that edge of her dress. When most ladies rise from the ground, they try to keep their skirt down—she is pulling it up. I believe this is a clue to not only look at her skirt, but to look underneath it. Like the dwarf always looking under ladies skirts could be a clue to look for what hides beneath Christine’s skirts. In Masquerade, she had the red petticoat. Here she has the red book/pillow. And in the companion book when they show her on that inside track in TOM song—p. 74--the hem of her overskirt is turned up several inches. (I’ll get the picture for that today). On the rooftop, her cloak was both red and purple inside—Phoenix colors, the Phoenix being symbolic of Erik. (More later.) To tell a hidden story they mainly relied on the visual, and they did much of it with colors and props.
Again, she is wearing green skirt and black ribbon— the green is very murky- matching the walls (which are green the color of the queen- and where she often finds solace- her "room")
From Masquerade: Green and black, queen and priest…she is queen.
Christine: “It scares me, Don't put me through this ordeal by fire.”
An "ordeal by fire" is a strong testing—and an "ordeal by fire" as opposed to a "trial by fire" (which is very similar) is used only in the case of nobility (like a queen). Since Christine is Erik’s intended queen, "ordeal by fire" fits for her, and this is another clue showing she is royal...a queen.
From wikipedia: Trial by ordeal is a judicial practice by which the guilt or innocence of the accused is determined by subjecting them to a painful task…. Ordeal of fire: This test typically required that the accused walk a certain distance, usually nine feet, over red-hot ploughshares or holding a red-hot iron. Innocence was sometimes established by a complete lack of injury.
Trials by ordeal were a pagan custom that took on added ritual when Christianity was introduced into England. There were various ordeals, and at different times certain ordeals were reserved for people of higher rank,…The ordeals of the red-hot iron and the plowshares were also called the fire ordeals and were often reserved for nobility. (from Thomas & Gale Legal Encyclopedia-- http://www.answers.com/topic/ordeal)
also one site said this: A difficult or painful experience, especially one that severely tests character or endurance....
A method of trial in which the accused was subjected to physically painful or dangerous tests, the result being regarded as a divine judgment of guilt or innocence.
She knows she will be tested. (That they used these words in the song and that she is being tested is interesting—to determine her innocence/guilt in her connection with Erik, perhaps?) She knows it will be very hard for her to say no to Erik. She’s never been able to do so before, and it was ALWAYS her choice to go to him. Always. She made the decision to go to him based upon what she wanted—this is important to remember.
1) At mirror when he asked her to come to him, she hesitated then took his hand. The hesitation showed she made the choice. Her choice.
2) At masquerade ball when he asked her to return to him, she went forward, her eyes hopeful, a little smile on her face. Her choice.
3) At cemetery, she was so desperate to be with him, that—even when logic told her she shouldn’t, that when the gates opened—“Wildly my mind beats against you”—she went forward anyway. –“Yet the soul obeys” (soul—emotions).
She has NEVER held back from Erik, partly because they are one spirit, soul mates, and in unity with each other (as his crescent moon within blazing sun candlestick shows, one of many clues). They are both Music in this allegory, shown by the blue rays of light, that they both call each other Angel of Music, and more clues they’ve shown. He IS music, and he made her into Music.
”He'll take me, I know. . .”
He has never taken her forcefully in all of movie, so this is a strange thing to say if it’s about Erik. —It has always been a plea on his part—“Come to me, Angel of Music. . .” “If pride will let her return to me, her teacher, her teacher”—even in Wandering Child/AOM, he asked her to come…” They always showed it like this—maybe so we could remember that and realize what she’s really saying here. That “once I am with him, I will be his.” She knows this in her heart, because she loves Erik, cannot stop thinking about him (i.e. hiding red under skirts shows this, and later, her words show this in the translations), but the darkness scares her. She’s afraid of the Phantom spirit that’s his companion. This could also be relating to the Phantom spirit working through Erik to take her for his—the Phantom’s. They both want her.
”We'll be parted forever...”
The way she said this made it look like a desperate attempt to get Raoul to change his mind about her doing what he’s arranged—using her as bait to trap the king. However, she DOES want the light and to live in it, so I think it was in reference to this too.
”He won't let me go.”
Erik has never shown this—he took her back in STYDI, in fact, very quickly. He’s never held her with him against her will. She’s not speaking physical captivity here, because she wouldn’t think this since he has never shown himself to be that way. She’s saying he won’t let go of her heart and mind. Again, partly because she wants the same—but she doesn’t want any part of the evil she now knows is there. The Phantom has begun speaking into her mind as well, (WHYBMH), and she doesn’t want any part of him.
”What I once used to dream, I now dread. If he finds me, it won't ever end.”
If she’s so worried about Erik finding her, then what's she doing in the chapel—the place where they often met? And again, the red book that was hidden under her skirt shows us where her heart really is at this time. This shows her true feelings in the matter. She knows that she’s so connected to him that if he crooks his finger, she'll go to him. Her feelings for Erik have gotten stronger since their face-to-face meeting, and it scares her, again because of the darkness she’s seen in him. Remember too, she just admitted she loved him at cemetery. (In Spanish subtitles)
CHRISTINE: [sung] "And he'll always be there, singing songs in my head... He'll always be there, singing songs in my head..."
I think this refers both to Phantom and Erik.
Notice that now Raoul doesn’t have the sword at his side—but when he entered the room, he did. The sword symbolizes power, protection, authority, strength, and courage in the symbolism website—perhaps the fact that it is now missing as he approaches Christine shows that he is really not in power as he thinks he is—not in authority—and that Christine will come up with her own plan. More on that later… It could also show he’s no longer protected from this point on...
RAOUL: “You said yourself, he was nothing but a man...Yet while he lives, He will haunt us 'til we're dead.”
One of our sleuthers said this is sung close to how old Raoul sings to music box at auction. “Every detail, exactly as she said...will you still play when all the rest of us are dead?” Also, it is sung as Christine sang "Yet in his eyes, all the sadness of the world, those pleading eyes that both threaten and adore." Because of those similarities, this points to all three instances relating to same thing. These words are not sung about the Phantom spirit—it’s to the man. You can’t kill a spirit. And the music box symbolizes Erik…
She turns away, not at all happy with what Raoul just sang. Companion book even says, “CHRISTINE turns away, unhappily.” She doesn’t want to hear Raoul’s talk of killing Erik. Raoul senses that no matter where he takes Christine, she’ll always be thinking of Erik—(the red she always hides shows this) and Erik will always come between them, even in his absence—which is why Raoul says “he will haunt US”—so he’s telling her the only way they can have peace as a couple is by killing him. Something important here--Raoul has never yet seen Erik and Christine together. He’s only seen the Phantom controlling Erik. And he’s never heard them sing together either, though he did recognize Erik’s spirit through Christine’s mind—and called out “bravo” instead of “brava” in TOM (though he mouthed brava). But he still doesn’t realize how strongly she and Erik are connected. Nor was he in the ballroom when Erik sang to Christine and his subjects “she is worthy, worthy”—which sounds as if he was telling them she was worthy to be his queen.
CHRISTINE: “Twisted every way, what answer can I give?”
If she’s twisted every way, she’s saying she doesn’t want to betray Erik—as shown below.
CHRISTINE: "Am I to risk my life to win the chance to live?"
She wants the light, to live in the light. She was ready to give herself to Erik at the cemetery, deciding to accept the darkness just to be with him. But this scene shows she’s been thinking hard about how she almost did that, and realizes now it would have been a mistake and wouldn't have benefitted her or Erik.
CHRISTINE: "Can I betray the man who once inspired my voice?
Do I become his prey? Do I have any choice?
He kills without a thought, he murders all that's good. . .”
JB was in no way “good” and that is the only murder she knows about. She’s talking about the feelings between her and Erik and how he’s tried to “poison their love” by the dark things that have happened and the darkness he's become a part of.
CHRISTINE: ”I know I can't refuse...And yet, I wish I could
Oh God, if I agree, what horrors wait for me
In this, the Phantom's opera...”
This is the 3rd time in entire movie she has used the name “Phantom.” This shows she knows who is behind this, evil, and whose opera this really is. She’s not scared of Erik—but of the Phantom who controls him. By using this name, it shows that. Raoul also knows about or senses the darkness-evil—of the man because of what he said at the cemetery—“this thing is not your father”—something Christine already knew, that Erik wasn’t her father. But Raoul has seen only the evil controlling Erik, nothing else.
One other thing—regarding her fear of being in this opera—she has no idea that Erik will make an appearance on stage…at this point, she has no idea what will happen, but remembering Il Muto, she’s worried.
RAOUL: “Christine, Christine, Don't think that I don't care. But every hope, and every prayer rests on you now.”
As they hug, they make sure to get a clear shot of that red book/pillow--again, I feel to show that her heart is still with her Angel and that she's thinking of him here. Also, so we the viewers could see it better. Three candles are lit on each side of memorial section-- 3= Phantom spirit, and his power is about to invade...this could also show he is watching them. One sleuther caught what looks like two pindots of light—like eyes—in a place where it doesn’t fit (next to Christine when she’s sitting on window seat.) The three candles being there could also show that the Phantom was listening to what was said.
This whole conversation was much like the way a queen would consult her priest before doing something very difficult and dangerous. Even that it took place in a chapel seems significant. Again, Raoul is not obeying the kingdom rule, and he’s telling her that she must save the kingdom and her people; and she alone can do it by capturing the king and ending his reign over them, since she’s the only one who’s close to him. He also has personal reasons—he wants Christine—and he thinks the only way she’ll forget the man and see him (Raoul) as a lover is if the King was dead. He has no idea yet how close Erik and Christine really are...
*The following scene is third in act 2 of libretto—an omitted scene that shows more clearly who these characters were and what was in their minds/hearts. While it’s not clear if the hidden plot extends to the stage show—some say yes, some say no—it does give a more in-depth look at who these people are. Having had experience in the entertainment industry, I think ALW could have shown hints & planned something in the back of his mind with the stage show—then really flown with it for movie and added much more, taking some things out—changing things around to fit the idea better, adding to his idea with JS’s help—all to make a full-fledged hidden story to be found within the movie.
CARLOTTA: (dryly) Ah! Here’s our little flower!
(rose?
)ANDRE: (explaining): You have secured the largest role in this ‘Don Juan’.
CHRISTINE: “This isn’t my fault! I don’t want any part in this plot!
CHRISTINE: “I cannot sing it, duty or not!
RAOUL: (comforting) “Christine. . .Christine. . .You don’t have to. . . they can’t make you. . .
(spoken) Your obedient friend. . .
(The PHANTOM’S voice fades out and GIRY takes over)
GIRY: (spoken): “. . .and Angel. . .”
(Attention now focuses on RAOUL, whose eyes are suddenly bright with a new thought)
We shall play his game—perform his work—but remember we hold the ace. . .For if Miss Daae sings, he is certain to attend. . .
(ALL have been listening intently, GIRY is the first to express a reaction. CHRISTINE remains silent and withdrawn)
GIRY: Madness! This is madness! Monsieur, believe me—there is no way of turning the tide.
RAOUL: (rounding on GIRY): “Then help us!”
GIRY: “Monsieur, I can’t. . .”
RAOUL: “Instead of warning us. . .”
GIRY: “I wish I could. . .”
RAOUL/ANDRE/FIRMIN: “Don’t make excuses!”
RAOUL: “Or could it be that you’re on his side?”
GIRY: “Monsieur, believe me, I intend no ill. . .”
(to ANDRE and FIRMIN) But, messieurs, be careful—we have seen him kill. . .
ANDRE/FIRMIN: (to RAOUL): If you succeed,
you free us all—this so called ‘angel’ has to fall!
RAOUL: “Angel of music, fear my fury—Here is where you fall!
GIRY: “Hear my warning! Fear his fury!”
CARLOTTA: “What glory can she hope to gain? It’s clear to all the girl’s insane!”
FIRMIN: (to ANDRE): “If Christine helps us in this plan. . .
RAOUL: “Say your prayers, black angel of death!”
(yet another reference/clue to Phantom spirit actually being Angel of Death)
CHRISTINE: (vainly pleading amidst the tumult): “Please don’t. . .”
ANDRE: (to FIRMIN): “If Christine won’t, then no one can. ..”
GIRY: (to RAOUL) ”Monsieur, I beg you, do not do this. . .”
CHRISTINE: (bursting through the hubbub with a great cry): “If you don’t stop, I’ll go mad!” (to RAOUL, pleading) “Raoul, I’m frightened—don’t make me do this. . .Raoul, it scares me—don’t put me through this ordeal by fire. . .he’ll take me, I know. . .we’ll be parted for ever. . .he won’t let me go. . . (all sung) What I once used to dream I now dread. . . if he finds me, it won’t ever end. . . and he’ll always be there, singing songs in my head. . .
CARLOTTA: (spoken): “She’s mad.”
RAOUL: “You said yourself he was nothing but a man. . .Yet while he lives, he will haunt us till we’re dead. . .”
(CHRISTINE turns away, unhappily)
RAOUL: “every hope and every prayer rests on you now. . .”
(CHRISTINE, overcome by her conflicting emotions, turns away and hurries out. RAOUL strides forward and addresses an imaginary PHANTOM)
RAOUL: (spoken): “So, it is to be war between us! But this time, clever friend, the disaster will be yours!”
**COMPANION BOOK CLUES**
Companion book screenplay shows this after WHABB—(they didn’t show it in movie—instead they immediately cut to the police)—but it might help us understand Christine’s feelings at the time in chapel. “RAOUL notices CHRISTINE watching from the wings. Her look; accusation and fear. She turns and runs from him.” (p. 125) This tells me she wasn’t at all happy to hear of their plan to catch the Phantom/Erik, nor is she happy with Raoul for his idea of using her as bait. IOW, her trust level toward Raoul has just dropped a notch.
We see a legion of gendarme march past (and in b&w scene before this, where Raoul is remembering, A LEGION OF GENDARME is capped and underlined in companion book, so I think this might be important here too, since they don’t show that part in movie, with b&w Raoul.)
**SPANISH SUBTITLES TRANSLATIONS BY PMA & Promiseme & co.**
RAOUL: "We have all been blind"
Sí, será un buen plan
Yes, it will be a good plan
"And yet the answer is staring us in the face"
Todo es factible y sencillo
Si, así lo véis
You will see that everything is feasible and simple… If therefore see {?}
"This could be our chance, to ensnare our clever friend"
Es nuestra occasion
Si esto marcha y sale bien
This could be our chance if all goes as planned
We’re listening, go on
Somos todo oídos, señor
*We are all ears, gentleman
RAOUL: "We shall play his game"
Al hacer Don Juan
When we make Don Juan
Perform his work but remember we hold the ace
Probad su juego sabiendo
Que el as tenéis
*You prove his game knowing
That the ace you have
"For if Miss Daae sings"
Pues al cantar Christine
When Christine sings
"He is certain to attend"
La oirá ya sabéis quien
He will hear her, you know who I mean[referring to 'he']
from honey: Perhaps he is afraid to say his name because he knows it’s treason, and is trying to be secretive about it, in case of spies. The three candles at the end of this scene implies there was—the Phantom spirit.
We are certain the doors are barred
Las salidas se cerrarán
*The exits will be closed
We are certain the police are there
Y los guardias se pondrán allí
*And the guards will put themselves there
We are certain they are armed
Bien armados irán
*Armed well they will go
The curtain falls
Caerá el talon
*The curtain will fall
"His reign will end!"
Caerá él también
He also will fall
TEW
Christine:
Raoul, I’m frightened
Raoul, estoy aterrada.
*Raoul, I am terrified.
Don’t make me do this
No me obligues a hacer esto.
*Do not force to me to do this.
Raoul. It scares me.
Raoul. Me da miedo.
*Raoul. It gives fear to me.
"Don't put me through this ordeal by fire."
No me hagas atravesar este infierno.
*Don't make go through this hell
He’ll take me, I know
Él me llevará. Lo sé.
*It (he?) will take me. I know it.
We’ll be parted forever
Partiremos para siempre.
*Divided forever (?)
"He won't let me go"
Nunca me dejará libre.
*He'll never set me free
from honey: Remember when she said, “Please Raoul, it’s useless”—this whole section reminds me of that. As if she’s saying is, “I’m his, he’s ordained it, so just let it go and don’t make me do something I don’t want to do—that will be hell for me and could hurt me.” Also this could relate to the phantom spirit that will never set her free.
What I once used to dream I now dread
Aquello que fue un sueño es ahora un temor.
*What was a dream, is now a fear.
If he finds me it won’t ever end
…Si me encuentra, no habrá final
*If it (he?) finds me, there will be no end
And he’ll always be there singing songs in my head, he’ll always be there singing songs in my head.
Él va a estar siempre aquí
Y en mi mente hablará
va a estar siempre aquí
Siempre me cantará
*It (he?) is going to always be here
And in my mind it (he?) will speak
It (He?) will always sing to me
Raoul
You said yourself he was nothing but a man..."
te oí decir
Que era un hombre y es verdad
He was nothing but a man, and it's the truth
another translation: I heard you say that he was a man, and it’s the truth.
"Yet while he lives, he will haunt us till we're dead"
Si ha de vivir
Nuestra muerte
Deseará
If he lives, our death he will desire
from honey: his death I can understand—because it’s true. But this shows me that Raoul thought Erik planned to kill Christine at the cemetery. To give him credit, he’s only seen the Phantom/Erik. He’ll soon learn the truth though.
Christine:
Twisted every way what answer can I give
¿Qué respuestas hay?
¿Qué puedo yo añadir?
What answers are there?
*What can I add?
"Am I to risk my life"
¿Hablando o rebelándome
Speaking or revealing myself
another translation: Speaking or rebelling to me
"To win the chance to live"
Deseando huir?
Wishing to flee?
from honey: This is worded as if she wonders if she should speak and warn the king—or rebel against him. That she wishes to flee what Raoul says she must do in revealing herself as bait--and she is considering warning the king by speaking to him.
"Can I betray the man"
¿Callarme, hacer el mal
Remain silent and do this wrong
from honey: She is saying straight out that if she remains silent and doesn’t warn the king, she feels she is committing a wrong.
"Who once inspired my voice?"
Al que inspiró mi voz?
Against him who once inspired my voice
"Do I become his prey? Do I have any choice?"
Lanzarme no podéis
A un riesgo tan atroz
You cannot throw me into such an awful risk
from honey: She knows that even for a queen to disobey the king can be dangerous and she can’t believe Raoul force her into doing it.
"He kills without a thought"
Él quema el corazón
He burns the heart
from honey: meaning she’s loved him and he’s wounded her
"He murders all that's good"
Él mata sin razón
He kills without reason
"I know I can't refuse..."
Estamos a su albur
We are all at his disposal
from honey: When a person is at someone's disposal, that means that they are made available to him and must do whatever he commands.
"And yet I wish I could"
Y yo soy su obsesión
And I am his obsession
from honey: another word for obsession: fascination/passion
"Oh God, if I agree"
Oh, Dios
Si cedo aquí
Oh God, If I yield here
What horrors wait for me
¿Qué horror me espera a mí
*What horror waits for me
From honey: Notice the singular horror, not plural; horror could mean phantom spirit
"In this, the Phantom's opera"
Sin ti, de fuego y sombra?
Without you, of fire and shadow?
from honey: Yield—surrender. Fire and shadow—Erik (sun god—Phoenix—fire) & Phantom. . (shadow/darkness). In other words: Without you who has both fire and shadow—Erik. Since he also relies on Phantom; he is both “of fire and shadow.”
To make it easier, using names— “Oh God, what will the phantom do to me, if I yield to this plan without your knowledge, Erik?” It sounds as if she’s saying if she does this thing and surrenders to what Raoul wants of her, behind the king’s back, and does what she feels is wrong without warning the king (“speak or reveal myself/rebel?”)—she still wants Erik and is afraid to be without him—wondering what horror awaits her if she yields to Raoul’s plan.
Her fears are all about the darkness and being taken by the Phantom spirit. She wants to end the reign/captivity of darkness, without harming the king, but is afraid to go through with the plan as Raoul has revealed it to her, fearing both for herself and for Erik. And PONR shows she changes the plan, coming up with her own plan once Erik takes the stage, which leads back to this moment…more later…
RAOUL: "Don't think that I don't care"
No es ruin
It isn't contemptible
"But every hope and every prayer rests on you now"
Es un deber
Mas la elección
It's your duty and the choice
from honey: If it’s her “duty” this is coming right out and saying she is second in command—the intended queen—and she must do what is expected of her. To have Raoul say it’s not contemptible shows that she thought that’s exactly what it was. It’s “the choice” that has been made for her. (definition of contemptible: disgraceful, loathsome, despicable, dishonorable, etc.) This shows she’s not in favor of Raoul’s plan, and not just because she’s scared. Because she feels it’s wrong.
**FRENCH SUBTITLES TRANSLATIONS BY Mia & Co.**
RAOUL: We have all been blind. And yet the answer is staring us in the face.
Oui je sais comment
Dès à présent mettre un terme
A ses maléfices.
Yes I know how from now on to put an end to his evil spells
Evil spells points to phantom spirit
This could be the chance to ensnare our clever friend.
Il ne devrait plus
Bien longtemps nous tenir tête
He should not any more
Hold us a long time lead (position of leadership)
Saying he won’t be in leadership any longer, though he’s held them there a long time
ANDRE: We’re listening...
Oui, et bien?
Yes, well?
FIRMIN: Go on...
Alors?
Then?
RAOUL: We shall play his game - perform his work - but remember we hold the ace...
Vous jouerez sa pièce,
Mais, voyez-vous,
Cela même nous rendra service,
We will play his piece, but you see that same .................return a favor
another translation: You will play his part, but, you see, that to us will even render service
For if Miss Daae sings, he is certain to attend...
Car si Christine chante,
oui, c’est sûr il faut qu’il guette.
Because if Christine sings, yes, it is sure he is on the lookout
ANDRE: We are certain the doors are barred...
Oui, c’est sûr, on verrouille les portes.
Yes, it’s sure, the doors are locked
FIRMIN: We are certain the police are there...we are certain they’re armed
Oui, c’est sûr, la sûreté sera là.
Oui, c’est sûr, elle s’arme.
Yes, it is sure, the police will be there
Yes, it is sure, she is armed.
another translation: Yes, it is sure safety will be there. Yes, it is sure, she is armed.
Interesting how they are saying Christine will be armed…elle is the feminine pronoun for she/her.
RAOUL/ANDRE/FIRMIN: The curtain falls, his reign will end
Le rideau tombe,
sur sa défaite.
The curtain falls, on his defeat.
TWISTED EVERY WAY
Raoul, I’m frightened - don’t make me do this...
Raoul, j’ai peur.
Ne m’y oblige pas.
Raoul, I’m afraid. Don’t force me.
Raoul, it scares me - don’t put me through this ordeal by fire...
Raoul, je crains le pire.
Ne m’oblige pas à traverser les flammes.
Raoul, I fear the worst. Don’t force me to go through the fire.
another translation: Raoul, I fear the worst. Do not force me to cross the flames.
From honey: Just a thought—she crossed the bridge in PONR and underneath were flames.
He’ll take me, I know...We’ll be parted forever...He won’t let me go...
Il va m’emporter,
je’en suis sûre.
Nous serons séparés à jamais.
Il n’abandonnera pas.
He’ll take me, I am sure...He won’t let me go...
another translation: He will take me, I am sure. We will be separate forever. He will not give up.
What I once used to dream, I now dread...
Ce qui naguère n’était qu’un rêve,
maintenant m’inquiète.
What I once used to dream, now worries me...
If he finds me, it won’t ever end...
S’il me trouve, je n’en aurai jamais fini.
If he finds me, it will never be finished...
And he’ll always be there, singing songs in my head...
Et toujours il viendra
Fredonner dans ma tête...
And he will always come to sing softly in my head...
(repeats)
You said yourself he was nothing but a man...
Tu dis toi-même
Que ce n’est qu’un être humain.
You said yourself that he was only a human.
Yet while he lives, he will haunt us till we’re dead...
Mais tant qu’il vit,
nous vivons sous
Sa baguette.
But while he lives, we live under his rod. (staff)
From honey: Another clue to kingship—rod is like a king’s scepter, his rule/authority…
Twisted every way, what answer can I give?
Déchirée ainsi,
A l’heure decisive,
Torn this way, at this critical time,
Am I to risk my life to win the chance to live?
Comment risquer moi-même
L’ultime tentative?
How to risk myself, the final attempt?
From honey: She has long tried to bring Erik into the light from clues shown, but Raoul’s way of putting an end to the darkness—the final attempt—is dangerous because she feels she is deceiving/betraying the king by keeping silent, and is unsure what will happen.
Can I betray the man who once inspired my voice?
Quant à tromper l’auteur
De ma metamorphose,
As to deceive the author of my transformation,
Do I become his prey? Do I have any choice?
Cela me fait si peur,
Pourtant, il faut que j’ose …
That makes me so afraid, though it is necessary that I dare...
He kills without a thought, he murders all that’s good...
Il rit de la souffrance,
Ses meurtres me dégoûtent.
He laughs at the suffering, his murders disgust me.
From honey: in other translations, when laughter is used talking about Erik, it says he doesn’t laugh. She’s talking about the phantom here, I think.
I know I can’t refuse, and yet, I wish I could.
Dire non, ce serait fou,
Alors, pourquoi ces doutes?
To say no, it would be insane, then why these doubts?
From honey: from clues shown, she doubts because she loves Erik and doesn’t want to see him harmed.
Oh God - if I agree, what horrors wait for me in this...the Phantom’s Opera...?
Oh, quel que soit mon choix,
Quelle donc sera pour moi
L’issue du fatal opéra?
Oh, whatever my choice, what then will be for me the outcome of the fatal opera?
Fatal—deadly; she is questioning—whatever my choice, what will happen to me?—as if knowing either way she will lose. If she agrees to the plan to end his reign and capture him, she is asking what the result of this will be for her. Or, if she doesn’t agree, she wonders what will happen to her with the result of the opera. She’s saying she can’t win either way. Either she loses him, or she winds up forever in the darkness. She doesn’t want either.
RAOUL: Christine, Christine, don’t think that I don’t care - but every hope and every prayer rests on you now...
Christine, Christine, je suis que l’heure est noire,
Mais tu regroupes
Tous nos espoirs
De le vaincre...
Christine, Christine, I know the hour is black, but you gather all our hopes to overcome him.
**ITALIAN TRANSLATIONS by Angelofdarknss**
RAOUL: We have all been blind. And yet the answer is staring us in the face.
Lui è furbo, ma la soluzione è facile, io so qual è
He is sly/slick, but the solution is easy I know what it is
This could be the chance to ensnare our clever friend.
Sì, per me la chance che risolve i nostri guai
Yes, for me the chance that resolves our troubles
Andre: We’re listening...
Continuate!
Continue!
FIRMIN: Go on...
Suvvia!
Come on!
RAOUL: We shall play his game - perform his work - but remember we hold the ace...
Noi lo prenderemo, Si può allestire a teatro il suo "Don Juan"
We will catch him, His “Don Juan” can be prepared onstage
For if Miss Daae sings, he is certain to attend...
Se c'è Christine Daae certo lui non mancherà!
If Christine Daae is there certainly he will not be missing!
ANDRE: We are certain the doors are barred...
Ed accoglierlo noi sapremo
And we will know to welcome him
FIRMIN/RAOUL: We are certain the police are there...we are certain they’re armed
La polizia lo prenderà, Tutti armati saremo
The police will catch him, We will all be armed
RAOUL/ANDRE/FIRMIN: The curtain falls, his reign will end
Lo giuro a voi, non scapperà!
I swear to you, he will not escape!
TEW
The translation starts from when she begins singing “and he’ll always be there singing songs in my head.”
And he’ll always be there, singing songs in my head...
...e sarà sempre lì a cantare per me… sarà sempre lì a cantare per me
…and he will always be there to sing for me…
he will always be there to sing for me
RAOUL: You said yourself he was nothing but a man...
l'hai detto tu era un uomo, nulla più
you have said he was a man, nothing more
RAOUL: Yet while he lives, he will haunt us till we’re dead...
finchè vivrà lui mai tregua ci darà
as long as he will live he will never offer us a truce
from honey: A “truce” as in war.
CHRISTINE: Twisted every way, what answer can I give?
Giorno di follia, decidere dovrei
Day of foolishness, I have to decide
Am I to risk my life to win the chance to live?
se per la libertà la vita rischierei
If for freedom I would risk life
Can I betray the man who once inspired my voice?
Tradire potrei io mai chi il canto mi ispirò
I never would be able to betray who inspired to me the song
Do I become his prey? Do I have any choice?
sarà per sempre in me ho visto gli occhi suoi
He will be for always in me, I have seen his eyes
He kills without a thought, he murders all that’s good...
orrende crudeltà, immensa frenesia
Horrendous cruelty, immense frenzy
I know I can’t refuse, and yet, I wish I could.
Accetterò, se vuoi vorrei fuggire via
I will accept, if you want(wish/demand), I want a way to escape
Oh God - if I agree, what horrors wait for me in this...the Phantom’s Opera...?
oh Dio, se dico sì a chi il mio cuor rapì vivrò l'orror supreme.
Oh God, if I say yes to whom kidnapped my heart I will live the supreme horror.
From honey: If he kidnapped her heart, that’s another way of saying he stole her heart—and that she loves him.
RAOUL: Christine, Christine, don’t think that I don’t care - but every hope and every prayer rests on you now...
Christine, Christine, so che ne soffrirai, ma noi vedremo cambiare il nostro futuro.
Christine, Christine, I know you suffer about about him. But we will see to change our future.
**THE SPOKEN WORD**
From what I found, I believe when lines are spoken after lines have been sung, it always refers to Angel of Music (him, her or both). This TEW scene isn’t broken away from song, instead it goes into it, but the spoken lines still refer to the Angel of Music—both her and Erik:
**SOUND SIMILARITIES**
WHABB--Unique
Raoul I’ve Been There when in the chapel
Prima Donna when Raoul says bit about hopes and prayers.
**MUSICAL ANALYSIS by Phantom’s Star**
Note: I think this is what the sounds stand for.
Flute: a calling
Harp: thinking of Angel—Angel of Music—(from honey: can be him or her)
Cymbals: Angel is there, or near (brush of cymbals)—loud crash—he is fully there.
1.)As we switch from Angel tossing his cloak and Raoul singing, we hear the cymbals on the word “we.” I think this shows that all hope is not yet lost for Angel. He’s still there, even after we witnessed the Phantom fully in the cemetery.
2.)Flute – “This could be the chance” – We hear the flute on this line. Raoul is calling for the managers to listen to his plan.
3.)Harp – “This could be the chance to ensnare our clever friend” – We hear the harp string on the word “this.” I think M. Giry is the one thinking of Angel (Erik) here since she is the only one in this scene that truly knows him. As Raoul continues singing, we hear the harp on:
We shall play his game (plucking of the harp strings)
Remember we hold the ace (on the word “ace,” we hear the harp strings)
The curtain falls (plucking of the harp strings)
I think the whole time we hear the harp here, I think it means M. Giry is thinking of Angel and concerned for him. She also shakes her head, which shows she doesn’t agree with Raoul’s plan.
from honey—that the harp played on “ace” could also show that ace is partly about him and Christine. (Ace of hearts)
4.)Flute – “For if Miss Daae sings he is certain to attend” – I think what the flute means here is that Angel can be called when Christine sings, and Raoul knows it.
5.)“His reign will end” – On the word “end,” we hear the cymbals. Is Angel/Phantom there listening to them and the plan? I think it’s quite possible.
6.)As the police are marching in, we hear the flute play with the melody starting on the 5th “Hut”. The police are being called to the opera house to capture Angel.
7.)Harp – “You said yourself he was nothing but a man.” After the word “man,” we hear the plucking of harp strings. I think further proof Christine is thinking of her Angel and remembering him.
8.)Harp – After Raoul sings, “But every hope and every pray rests on you now,” we faintly hear the brush of harp strings. Christine is thinking of Angel but pride will win out at this point (since we also hear the tune of Prima Donna). (We hear two low sounds of what I think is a tuba and right after, we hear the brush of harp strings.) We also slightly hear the brushing of cymbals. Again, is Angel near, listening? But since it’s only the brushing of cymbals, I think it can be Angel but not completely himself.
LINK to: Don Juan Triumphant
viewtopic.php?t=7293
Last edited by honeyphan on Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Music brought them together...One kiss bound them for life...
And two hearts were entwined for all eternity
*Thanks nightsmusic for avatar! *E/C Banner/manip made by me (from The Treasure)
*More full E/C manip/paintings in my album
~ *Captain of the Hidden Plotters ...Is there a "Hidden Plot" in 2004 POTO movie? You decide!
The Hidden Plot (HP)
E/C Phanphics (more to come soon) THE QUEST (HP-bk.1)
THE TREASURE (HP-bk. 2 - adult) REFLECTIONS of the SOUL A PHANTOM CHRISTMAS CAROL SYMPHONY in the TWILIGHT - adult -click links to read
And two hearts were entwined for all eternity
*Thanks nightsmusic for avatar! *E/C Banner/manip made by me (from The Treasure)
*More full E/C manip/paintings in my album
~ *Captain of the Hidden Plotters ...Is there a "Hidden Plot" in 2004 POTO movie? You decide!
The Hidden Plot (HP)
E/C Phanphics (more to come soon) THE QUEST (HP-bk.1)
THE TREASURE (HP-bk. 2 - adult) REFLECTIONS of the SOUL A PHANTOM CHRISTMAS CAROL SYMPHONY in the TWILIGHT - adult -click links to read
--rolls eyes at self for oversight; not sure how I missed that), but yes, I also agree that those words could be directed to Erik, saying the phantom will part them forever with his darkness. I think she's begun to realize that the Phantom wants complete control of Erik. 
)
