The Hidden Plot: Vote Now (Does it or does it not exist?)

[honeyphan]

Even though I already voted, I do wonder: if one strongly believes Erik and Christine were together in the end, wouldn't you feel it in your gut instinct and be satisfied with that rather than feeling compelled to dissect every scene, bit by bit, to prove that they really did have a happy ending together?

Hey Lefantom!

Let me explain why the summaries are soooo detailed.
In my experience these past two years-- (I can't believe it's been that long!! But my son bought me the DVD end of May when it came out, and shortly after that, the HP hunt started...) - I found what "clues" others thought of import, some didn't. And vice versa.
What strongly led some to believe there was a deeper story told through symbolism - even a different one - other people weren't that impressed with. And what they felt was true, didn't faze the others as much at all. Though there were things we all agreed on. lol

Because everyone is different, and has different views/opinions, I felt it important to get every last detail of what we found in the summaries - for that reason. Also, because I believe they put it there to find, and I think, as writers, it would please them to know someone did (if they should ever look at the HP summaries; I think they do know they exist). And since each person is affected a different way, I put every little thing down. Some might see things in symbolism others don't, and others might not see a word of it - and that's fine.

As to why I did it...let me also explain:
I figured it out before I started the HP thread-- not all of it--just the DOM ending. Two sisters on the WB spread word of a "hidden plot" they'd found (both stage and movie) and though they were shunned by all, except a slim few (even I thought it odd at first and wasn't sure what they were talking about)--they persisted with trying to show their ideas until they coudn't take the abuse anymore and left the WB board. I didn't understand some of their reasonings behind a lot of their ideas, and some of it I couldn't understand period--their posts were a bit out there and hard to understand--but I was intrigued and we did agree on some things. Erik as King, as Music, and a Phantom Spirit (or darkness--separate from Erik)--and that in the movie they did do things with lights, mirrors, sound, etc. The sisters are the ones who gave me a key--telling me to look closely at the lyrics, especially the masquerade song. They didn't come right out and give answers--at least when I joined the board, they didn't. (they were there before I joined and had already endured abuse I later learned). But they did give little hints here and there. Enough to intrigue me to continue with it and pursue.

I originally started watching each scene in detail because I was doing a "Why Christine loved the Phantom" analyses, showing why he was her true love (because some expressed interest in that). At that point, I still looked at it from a "tragic romance" angle, not realizing an alternate story had been put there. To do justice to the analyses, I watched each scene repeatedly, taking careful note of expressions, etc--and after a while, I began to notice things were off. At first, I thought they might just be mistakes--(surprised?)--but the "mistakes" started to form a pattern, one never broken, and I realized those sisters at the WB were right. The POTO creators did do things purposely. When I looked deeper into it, I found a common denominator, and I was thrilled. I love mysteries, love to research, love the movie--so this was right up my alley.

I posted a thread, asking anyone who wanted to join in to get on board--and we found so much more. The sisters started another thread at the beginning, cautioning me not to do it, that I should let everyone find out for themselves (and I think they were worried there might be animosity from others--wihch did happen )--I asked them to join me, but they didn't want to. They were pretty hurt by the way people treated them on the other board, I think.

My thoughts for not just keeping it to myself and bringing it out into the open, to hunt, were twofold:

First, I saw so many come onto the WB board -- depressed after seeing the movie (and not understanding why) --obsessed with watching it over and over and over-- more so than any movie or show they'd ever experienced (I think one reason I and others had to see it over and over again was because to us it didn't "click" right--it didn't fit.)-- some with a lack of appetite (due to depression)--and so focused on the movie that real life seemed not that important. Some even heard the songs in their head as they lay down to sleep and when they first awoke--repeatedly, night after night.

But I was stunned--all of the above was happening to me as well. and had never happened to me in a movie--and except for the depression, had not happened my entire life (especially the songs in my dreams! That was freaky...my mom had the same experience after only watching it twice.)

But in finding what I and others did, it helped me to "release" the movie, for want of a better word, putting it into its rightful place--as just a great movie to watch occasionally, and not something that had become almost an idol --no, no "almost" about it. It had become an idol, and that was wrong. It was all I thought about, etc. I didn't want to be that way--I just was...

Now some can say that we HPers did this just because we wanted Erik to have a happy ending--but that doesn't fly for me. Because I have seen many sad movies with characters I loved that I wish had gone a different way, but none of them led me to want to change the story--especially to the point that I would study the movie, etc. This wasn't about trying to find anything I could that would make it seem like E/C.

This was about having things jump out at me as I viewed over and over (for the tragic romance analyses) and saw that there was a pattern involved. When we HPers would then research into the definitions for the symbolism of the object, action, etc--we were often blown away by what we found - not expecting it always to just fit right in place, as it always did. But after a time, we stopped being so surprised--lol.

So, I could have just kept it all to myself, gone along with the sisters and not started the Hidden Plot thread two years ago. But I wanted to share my gold with others--the gold that I had found. I wanted others who were interested to feel the pleasure of watching the movie and not crying buckets of tears at the end (as many said they did), of not feeling depressed or upset or even compelled that they put real life aside (as others also said they did).
I wanted to share the satisifed feeling of an ending that finally made sense. And didn't leave one feeling depressed--but rather cheered, triumphant--even expectant and hopeful.

Not everyone has the time, patience, or energy for a project of this size--and several told me so, wishing they did. So I posted all we found outright on the WB board, not keeping it to myself. I felt this was a gift for everyone--not my gift, but ALW and JS's gift to those interested--and I just came along to help figure out what I felt they were trying to say through giving definitions of the symbolism and and showing the common groupings, etc.
Everyone has their own opinions of the ideas they were trying to present with the symbolism, and that's fine too. But minus all the little details, in the end, everyone I know who believes in the existence of the HP agrees--Erik and Christine loved each other throughout movie and eventually at some point ended up together. (I believe it happened sooner than later, but that's just me. )

Secondly, I knew that I could not do this on my own in a short time. Though I had found many things in DOM and also a few things throughout movie, there was so much more besides. To try to tackle it alone might have taken me years. But with the help of some, many who are experienced or even professionals in their fields, it took about a year to find and figure out all we did. And it's ongoing. We still spot things from time to time or make connections as we watch the movie.
One reason the hidden plot chat thread and forum still exist--it's a place to come and swap ideas of what we've found in our research of a given object, etc. And the summaries up here on pg.net are much more involved than they were on the WB, because we did find so much more since then...

But why did I start the hidden plot team and personally get so involved in the details of it--and am still involved? Besides my desire to give others the happy ending for Erik they wanted (and that I strongly believe the POTO creators put in there?)
I love mysteries (and detecting). I love research. And I love games.

And this was a treasure hunt of mammoth proportions...
A mystery lover's dream come true. lol

I thoroughly enjoyed every moment of it.
And still do.

to those interested: I'll be working on the next symbolism list this weekend. (life has kept me swamped for awhile now, but I have not forgotten the Erik/Christine in love and as a couple symbolism thread. )

[Phantom's Star]

I haven't been too involved on this forum but I'm a WB Refugee and became very interested and involved with the hidden plot when it was first mentioned by Honey. Just a little bit about myself: I recently graduated from college as a film major and will be attending law school in the fall.

First of all, I don't know if the hidden plot is the correct term to use, but it's what we have come to call it because it's another story "hidden" within the text, music, lyrics, sets, etc, that creates a secondary "plot."

Second of all, I do believe in the hidden plot. I think it was a way for ALW and JS to expand upon a beautiful story that is known worldwide because of the success of the musical. I think the film offers fans of the stage production, and new fans, something extra is they choose to dig deeper. It is a story of passion, true love, and redemption. For me, it answers all the questions I had after watching the film countless times but still coming up empty handed. Why did Christine's tombstone say "Countess" when Raoul was called a "Viscount" at the auction? Why did the lryrics in TOM contradict themselves? Did Christine really love the Phantom? And the symbolism was just so hard for me to ignore! The ring, the rose, the elaborate sets, the costumes, the colors, etc. Plus, the camera focusing on certain things at certain times, like on the Phantom when Christine sings "There will never be a day when I won't think of you," the dancers looking directly into the camera as they sang "Masquerade," and of course the tombstone.

Every shot, every design, every prop, every instrument , and basically every choice were all done for a reason in order to make this wonderful film. It's great how to we can all discuss our thoughts about these choices, which has led me and many others to believe more and more about this hidden plot. However, I do respect those who don't believe in the hidden plot. We're all entitled to our own opinions and I still love hearing what everyone thinks about this amazing Beauty and the Beast story, regardless of whether they believe in the hidden plot or not. But for me, I now choose to watch POTO with the hidden plot in mind because it makes me love POTO even more.

[POTOlover12]

i do believe HP does exist. of course i voted yes. i had no idea that there was a HP in this movie until i found this website and this form. the reason i believe so strongly for E/C is because i knew that they were meant to be. when i first saw this movie i thought that C picked R. i couldnt believe it! i know that E/C had a more deeper connection then R/C. after reading the HP summeries, my view of the movie has changed forever. i knew that there was something about the movie that i didnt feel right about.

i wanted to know the truth and i finally found it! HP makes more sence to me. im glad that i found HP. i would have never guessed there was a HP. im not that smart at figureing this stuff out LOL. now i look at it in a totally new way and i want it to stay that way. i do belive in the HP, and i want to thank Honeyphan and others who worked so hard on HP.

[Christina]

I believe. But I still hunger for a version where at the end of the movie it isn't shown that she goes with Raoul (or phillippe). I want a VISIBLE version that she "rides off into the sunset" with Erik. there's SO MANY versions of Raoul's...but c'mon...is one...ONE...version of Erik's too much to ask for?

in semi-topic....I watched Moulin Rouge the other night...and started applying the hidden plot to that....LOL i got "HP ON THE BRAIN"!