"Love Never Dies" - ongoing chat- (LND SPOILERS!)

[honeyphan]

Christina, I'm going to guess that it will have to last at least 2 yrs on Broadway before it comes here. ALW won't invest in a touring company for it until he's sure it will have a fairly long run and not lose the attendance on Broadway if a touring company is assembled. You'll have better luck seeing it on Broadway next year instead of waiting for it to come here.

Which...we plan to be doing. Right?
(And no promises- I have to see how the money situation is going when we get closer to that time- but as of now it's in my plans...)

The Heart is Slow to Learn???
Did they add that song to LND???
(I thought it was in another of ALW's musicals or almost included or something ...

(am feeling I entered in on the middle of the conversation - lol)

[C&E4eva]

Christina, I'm going to guess that it will have to last at least 2 yrs on Broadway before it comes here. ALW won't invest in a touring company for it until he's sure it will have a fairly long run and not lose the attendance on Broadway if a touring company is assembled. You'll have better luck seeing it on Broadway next year instead of waiting for it to come here.

Which...we plan to be doing. Right?
(And no promises- I have to see how the money situation is going when we get closer to that time- but as of now it's in my plans...)

The Heart is Slow to Learn???
Did they add that song to LND???
(I thought it was in another of ALW's musicals or almost included or something ...

(am feeling I entered in on the middle of the conversation - lol)

Honey, Its LND but different words! lol

[Christina]

i seriously think young Gustave is stealing the show here. I saw a youtube clip of his singing and wow...that kid can sing! I wonder what else he's done.

ya know what...my mom owes me a trip and said next summer we'd go where I wanted to, cuz this summer she went to italy without me... i think i have my decision!!!

(honey...did you ever get my PM i sent you)

[honeyphan]

C&E4eva- oh, of course! lol I forgot someone said something about that earlier in the thread. Sorry about that...

i seriously think young Gustave is stealing the show here. I saw a youtube clip of his singing and wow...that kid can sing! I wonder what else he's done.

ya know what...my mom owes me a trip and said next summer we'd go where I wanted to, cuz this summer she went to italy without me... i think i have my decision!!!

(honey...did you ever get my PM i sent you)

I think you mean Harry Child? He's a fantastic little singer, I agree. A really angelic voice.
(on the PM- I did get all of them to date, but before I can start thinking up ideas for that manip, you need to send me pics of your hero too. I'd rather you decide than me do it, simply because it is your story.)

[C&E4eva]

C&E4eva- oh, of course! lol I forgot someone said something about that earlier in the thread. Sorry about that...

i seriously think young Gustave is stealing the show here. I saw a youtube clip of his singing and wow...that kid can sing! I wonder what else he's done.

ya know what...my mom owes me a trip and said next summer we'd go where I wanted to, cuz this summer she went to italy without me... i think i have my decision!!!

(honey...did you ever get my PM i sent you)

I think you mean Harry Child? He's a fantastic little singer, I agree. A really angelic voice.
(on the PM- I did get all of them to date, but before I can start thinking up ideas for that manip, you need to send me pics of your hero too. I'd rather you decide than me do it, simply because it is your story.)

Haha thats okay honey XD

[honeyphan]

Did you guys miss me?

A bit about the music boxes…(and I'll put all the bits and pieces together and post them on a separate scene summary thread.

In PotO movie, everything about the monkey music box seemed to symbolize Erik and what state of circumstances he’s in- perhaps even what he was feeling at the time...

First we see it when he’s a boy in the cage. Like Erik, the monkey music box is tattered and worn, ragged- displayed as a thing of poverty. It plays cymbals. After the gypsy is killed, they show it in the same position without the cymbal that had been bound to its paw.






Next time they show the monkey music box- it’s in king’s robes, looking royal, and even the box is red and gold (Erik’s colors at the opera house).



But then, after he has destroyed his kingdom we see this:




The box itself is losing the red and gold and becoming black at the front though the colors of the monkey and pillow remain the same in hue and color.

I feel the monkey music box is connected to Erik (symbolizes him and his circumstances) in these ways:

a) It has the face of a beast (what he and others call him)
b) The box itself shares Erik’s colors— red and gold
c) It’s robes are royal— (which is also said in alternate lyrics of masquerade song)— and are red trimmed in gold:
d) It needs nothing to start it playing— it is Music
e) In the Masquerade alternate lyrics, they say “trace of rouge, face of ape”— rouge, being red. The monkey wears red. In fact, it’s gold-trimmed jacket looks a lot like what Erik wore in Why So Silent
f) The song it plays— Masquerade— is all about the king and his kingdom. (And they played a warped version of Masquerade in the scene with him as a child in the cage).
g) It plays cymbals— and when cymbals crash in the musical analysis one of my group wrote— Erik is always fully there and not under Phantom’s power at that moment.

In LND I think they did the same thing with music boxes, continued the same idea...

I think just like in PotO with the music boxes there, the skeletal gorilla music box symbolizes who he is/how he is feeling. It is now bigger and grander than the music box of before at the opera house, and much grander than the ratty monkey toy with the cymbals he had as a boy in a cage – again, all of it signifying who he was at the time. This new "monkey" type music box is like the world he has made for himself that he calls Phantasma – the recognition he has gained - grand and awe-inspiring.

This new one is a gorilla, a beast - like he always saw himself, and like the little monkeys symbolized in PotO, the first one, ratty but sort of sweet, childish looking. The second appearing older, dressed in his colors and wearing royal robes – but now- here the gorilla is bigger, grander – like Erik (the mysterious Mr. Y) who in his circumstances has grown in fame and fortune and owns all of Phantasma. But it has a skeletal gorilla head – because without Christine, he feels dead. The woman he loves has gone, through his own choice, and he feels dried up and aches down to his core, his soul broken (as he sings in ‘Til I Hear You Sing”). I think this skeletal gorilla music box symbolizes, who he is, what he feels as well as his circumstances.

The gorilla has four arms that play what sounds like drums and cymbals (a fifth one comes out of his stomach at times) The numbers and the cymbals also being a parallel to him in PotO. The gorilla also appears to be wearing a royal robe, trimmed in gold (Erik’s color in PotO).



All of his mechanical toys have death symbolized on them in some way – only partly whole. Perhaps again, because he feels dead and doesn’t feel whole (as he sang in ‘Til I Hear You Sing). Only with Christine is he completely alive… and that blue statue behind the skeletal gorilla- that has a greenish tinge – does anyone know who that is?? It’s of a woman whose back is against what looks like a sand dollar?? … Is it Peruvian maybe? Indian? Asian? Some kind of island goddess? Anyone know at a glance what that statue could be or from what origin it came?




The skeletal gorilla also wears a white powdered wig like the music box above (what Erik sent to Gustave, and also seeming symbolic of Erik as all music boxes seem to be.) The music box is dressed in evening clothes and is of a composer (like Erik is). In the picture above, they show Erik behind it striking a similar pose. Gustave was enchanted by it, Raoul wanted nothing to do with it and kicked it (or hit it?) to stop it from playing, and when Christine picked it up, wound it, and played it, she got a different song altogether – again, from PotO:

“You have come here” (beginning of MOTN and PONR)… specifically this part of it:
from MOTN: "Since the moment I first heard you sing I have needed you with me to serve me, to sing"

and from PONR "In your mind you've already succumbed to me, dropped all defenses, completely succumbed to me"

and her part "In my mind I've already imagined out bodies entwining, defenseless and silent..."

- each of those songs of PotO showing how he brought her there to him, to be with him in every sense at that time… and now he has done the same thing again. Immediately she understands the message of the music box and who sent it and whirls around to see Erik standing there …


My thoughts- what are yours?

[C&E4eva]

Honey, Thats good.
I think the woman thing behind the gorilla might have something to do with Christine. it has to!
Also, How the gorilla is a skeleton and the little music box has the same wig and even the same kinda cloths. Maybe, The little one G gets is E when he's with C and the big one when he's not. Maybe!

[C&E4eva]

Honey, Thats good.
I think the woman thing behind the gorilla might have something to do with Christine. it has to!
Also, How the gorilla is a skeleton and the little music box has the same wig and even the same kinda cloths. Maybe, The little one G gets is E when he's with C and the big one when he's not. Maybe!

And yes we missed you!

[Godzuki]

Honey, your music box analysis for both POTO/LND was incredible and fits perfectly!! Thank you for sharing that, the symbolism makes the story deeper and richer to me. It even ties the two (LND/POTO) even closer for me now. R kicks the music box (symbolizing how he sees E "that hell spawned demon"), but by the end of LND, he calls E C's AOM and understands her/their relationship at last. This is carried through to the end of POTO (movie) where he places the music box on C's grave, showing he understands and is at peace

I especially liked the explanation of the gorilla with skeleton head, yes, he sings of being "halfway real" (a phantom) without C and she too is completely silent ("halfway real" as singing is how she expresses herself IMO) when she first comes to NYC, only speaking after playing E's piece for her. You're making me want to go over the words of "Think of Me" again and apply them to C's 10 years away from E! This is exciting!

And of course we miss you when you're away!

[nightsmusic]

Quick question/comment and no, it's not HP oriented (at least I don't think so) but has anyone even commented on the fact that:

When C&R arrive and the press is giving R a hard time, one of the reporters makes the comment that "no one's ever even seen the man" which would lead me to believe that, though E has made his own peace with who he is, enough that he can live above ground and interact with the performers and such in the show, that he still doesn't go out in 'public'.

And yet, when G goes missing, what's E's first thought? To rush headlong into the "millions of people out there" with no care for himself or what could happen to him? His only concern is for G and C.